Dave,
I want to comment on your good Christian unity post before it gets too old.
I agree fully with you in the general assessment of the present state of
Christian unity. I’d like to comment, and to bring out some points that I’d
like to hear further discussion on.  Forgive the length of my post.  In the
future, I would much prefer to discuss any of these points, one at a time.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Hiatt <edge777@...>
To: christianunity@... <christianunity@...>
Date: Monday, August 17, 1998 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: Christian unity topic?

>>I have some questions for the whole list of Christians. What would
>>>Christian unity< look like? Do we have it fully already? If not, then
>>what would it look like? What practical form does it take for us now?
>>Does it involve all Christian denominations? What is the definition of >>a
Christian, or a Christian denomination? And what kind of unity does >>God
want us to have in Jesus? Any ideas?

(Dave's original response shown this way >)
>It would be nice to see true Christian unity everywhere, …

I know you said it this way because it's hard to imagine, and we've got such
a long way to go, and I agree.  It also might not have fitted the context to
say anything more.  So don’t think I’m nitpicking here, but I just want to
take the opportunity to make an additional point, to let you know how
strongly I feel about it.

I believe it would be a lot more than just “nice”.  I think it will be the
fulfillment of Jesus’ new commandment to love one another, and is the  way
this world will come to see that we are the disciples of the Son of the one
true God.  And it will be a major step in fulfilling God’s most-desired
purpose for the whole universe, to bring all things together in Jesus.

I believe it is the most common, most recurrent theme of the whole Bible.  I
believe it is the major key to the body of Christ understanding most all
scripture and even prophecy.  Do I think Christian unity is possible?  I
think it is inevitable.  We have only to choose to participate, or to leave
ourselves out.  I think it’s a vital part of what was meant about every knee
bowing, and every tongue confessing.

>…among all denominations.

This is the part I believe so strongly in, but seem unable to convince some
others by the Bible.  The word “denomination” just doesn’t appear in the
Bible.  There are dozens of scriptures that I believe refer to
denominationalism, and of course there’s the part in the Bible about how
different ones claim to be of Paul, Apollos, or Cephas.

But I have heard that very scripture used more than once by different
Christian groups to promote their group of Christians over all others.  They
maintain that it is all those other groups who are following after leaders
other than Jesus.  They seem to be saying, that they’re the only ones who
truly follow only Jesus, because of these scriptures,…….

Then they go on to fill in the blank with the interpretation of the Bible
which they believe best sets them apart from the rest, and makes them the
ones who serve God the best, or even the only ones who serve him.  I do not
know how to break through that kind of thinking, if they have hardened their
hearts not to hear it.  I don’t think we will ever find Christian unity if
we start by first trying to resolve that kind of doctrinal detail, which as
you note, Dave, has kept us apart for centuries.  I hope we get to all of it
eventually, but we’ve got to find a fundamental way to at least recognize
each other as Christians if we’re going to begin to have a conversation as
brothers in Christ.

I think this tendency towards the emphasis on self-promoting doctrinal
detail is exactly what you are talking about when you mention, a bit further
below here, that there are too many extremes.  That groups constantly break
off to become the opposite of the group they're leaving.

My comments here are already longer that I wanted, but let me just say that
I think the attempt to find scripture and prove yourself or your group to be
the best or only Christians is itself unscriptural, motivated by pride and
human vanity.  I believe it leads to some of the greatest sins committed,
including blasphemy of the Holy Spirit in others.  Not only is it
unscriptural, it can be, if carried to extremes, in an important sense
decidedly anti-Christ.  With this in mind, consider the following scriptures
in the context of their surrounding and with the rest of the Bible,

(1 John 2:18 KJV)  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have
heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists;
whereby we know that it is the last time.

(1 John 2:19 KJV)  They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if
they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they
went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

>Most denominations agree on basic doctrines, on the main
>ideas, and only differ in how to run their churches.

I agree with you, Dave.  But it seems to me that they don’t agree that they
agree.  That is, they don’t show the world that they agree with one another.
We need to make clear what agreement there is between us, and what we claim
to use as the authority for that agreement.

>They should spend less time focusing on traditions and spend more time
>digging into the Word.
I agree very much with this and I think gets to the heart of the issue, so
allow me to relocate something else you said:
>…One searching for a church home needs to test the teachings of the >church
against scripture and see how rooted the church is in Christ >alone, and
make sure it is not based on traditions….

I know I don’t have to tell you this, Dave.  Anyone who would take the kind
of time it takes to build that salvation page of yours, knows the value of
the Word.  But implicit in these comments of yours is the fact that it has
to be the Word we find agreement in.

This is the core of it.  I think that we have to find and define for
ourselves and for the world, just exactly what words in the Bible we do
agree on.  We’ve got to find a starting place in the Bible.

This is my final comment on your excellent post.  If there is one Bible
concept which best encapsulates the Bible words we need to begin with in
unity, it is salvation in Jesus.  For me, that is the essential definition
of the gospel: the “good news” to a lost and dying world that Jesus is the
way out of  the pain and misery of sin.  I won’t bother  to offer a single
scripture on that one.  I know this definition first hand because I’ve been
there, and I am never going back.
>
>Many denominations are branch-offs of other Christian denominations.
>And most of these formed by people rebelling, in a sense. The
>protestants broke off of the Roman Catholic church, being sick of the
>twisted doctrine the church was propogating. The protestants wanted to
>get back to basics, to the Word. But others, down through history,
>branched off, trying to be opposite of what they branched off from.
>
>That is what I believe to be part of the trouble with denominations and
>Christianity today. There are too many extremes. You have one group,
>and another group that branched off, trying to be totally opposite of
>the group they abandoned. So therefore you have two extremes. It is
>often difficult to sort out the tangled mess and find true Bible
>believing churches now, as some denominational churches (individual
>churches) seem to act like they belong in other denominations, or even
>as independent churches. One searching for a church home needs to test
>the teachings of the church against scripture and see how rooted the
>church is in Christ alone, and make sure it is not based on traditions.
>
>But from another point of view, many denominations do teach Christ, and
>since differences are often minor. Thus, we are exhorted not to let
>minor differences separate us. One must pray for unity.
>
>############################################
>Dave "The Edge" Hiatt
>edge777@...
>dsh84447@...
>http://members.tripod.com/~edge777
>
>"For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and
>lose his own soul???" --Mark 8:36
>
>______________________________________________________
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In Jesus,

Tim