Dear klaus,

It is always good to hear from you.  I have not received any information
about the history you mentioned, and I look forward to getting it from you.
If you sent it by snail mail, who knows how long it might take from Germany
to USA?  You may want to wait a bit and see if it gets through to me.  But
if you want to try again sometime, here is my address:

If you need my email address, it is warlick@...

My snail mail adress is as follows:

Tim Warlick
3220 S. Erie Ave.
Tulsa, Oklahoma 74135
USA

I like your example of speaking in tongues.  It is a fine gift from God, and
it is one which I have not been given, at least not in the same way a lot of
people have it.  Tulsa is the home of the Oral Roberts Ministries which is
among the largest and foremost of the "charismatic" groups, so I have a lot
of Christian friends here who do speak in tongues, in the way that they
understand it to mean.  And I have had several conversations with such
friends on the subject.  I refer to Oral Roberts Ministries (ORM)
specifically, because they do have a strong influence on some local
Christians  who I know (as well as internationally, maybe you've heard of
them?).

I almost hesitate to mention the Oral Roberts Ministries, because some other
Christians are offended by the requests for money they have sometimes made
to their supporters, and I guess I must confess that at one time I was
mistakenly offended at them for this reason also.  But the Holy Spirit
showed me recently how hard it can be for Christians to find the money to
support their own ministry, in which they feel personally called to serve
the Lord.  I for one, have learned well how not to judge them in any way for
seeking money from their supporters.

There is I think, an important issue related to Christian unity regarding
speaking in tongues, and one which I think ORM has been very much on the
side of Christian unity.

One of the central scriptures in this issue is this:
(1 Cor 12:30 KJV)  Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues?
do all interpret?
Such charismatics as the ORM have noted that this does not say that all
can't speak in tongues.  They do this as a way to encourage those who may
have the gift, to not be afraid to try to find it, to use it, and to know
that they have it.

Another central scripture in this issue is this:
(Mark 16:17 KJV)  And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name
shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Unfortunately, there have been some charismatic Christians who have
mistakenly gone beyond what I believe was intended by such leaders as the
ORM, or was intednded by the Bible.  Other "extremist" charismatic
Christians mistakenly take these scriptures to mean that *all* must speak in
tongues in order to prove that they have the signs, such as speaking in
tongues, in order prove they do in fact believe.  They use it as proof that
their own group of "charismatic", "gifted", Christians are better that other
Christians.  Or even worse, some use it to prove that they are the *only*
Christians.  I believe such interpretation is wrong because it is
self-promoting, self-proving, and self-willed.  Like the useage of
"self-willed" which you referred to, Klaus, I think such self-promoting
interpretations are the kind the Holy Spirit takes no part in.

God gave the gifts to us to serve each other in the body of Christ, not to
prove one Christian group over another, among ourselves.  It's an evil
generation that seeks signs in order to believe.  The signs are for those
outside the body of Christ, for those who don't believe.  And if one has the
gift, and the other does not have it, it is required that the Christian who
has the gift uses it to serve the Christian who does not have it, to promote
Christian unity, and not to divide us from one another.  The ORM, for one
group, has been foremost in trying to to teach Christians to use such gifts
to promote Christian unity, and not to cause further division.

It is just as wrong to reject other Christians for *not* speaking in
tongues, as it is to reject other Christians who *do* speak in tongues.  You
said it best:
>I should rejoice when someone has more love than myself, more of the Holy
>Spirit more of anything that God gives.

I do greatly rejoice that I have brothers and sisters in Christ who speak
with tongues, because they use that gift to serve the whole body of Christ,
including those of us Christians who are not so gifted.  And I, for one,
believe that this great gift from God, the gift of speaking in tongues, may
increase dramatically in these latter days, and may be seen in even greater
forms in these latter days.

I'd like to say more, later, but I've gone on too long already.  Love to
hear your comments.  And where is everybody else?  I know we all get busy
with other stuff from time to time, myself included, but I hope others will
comment too, as time permits.  Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

Love in Jesus,

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Klaus Meier <klausm@...>
To: 'christianunity@...' <christianunity@...>
Date: Saturday, October 31, 1998 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: [CU] Re: [Christianity] Keeping the Unity of the Spirit


>Halo dear Tim , warm greetings . I was waiting for you to respond in some
>way to the piece of history I wrote out for you . But maybe it went to the
>wrong address. I am still trying to find the perfect and failproof way to
>store, classify and then also answer the posts I get. Please forgive .
> I have no idea what measure God uses as He gives the Holy Spirit. Take
>speaking in tongues for instance. It is a charisma , a gift from God . If
it
>is a gift nobody can actually posses it . I think also here the word
>applies: The Holy Spirit withdraws to the same degree and to the same
>measure  and at the same time as self -will comes in . I make a difference
>between will, which God also gave us , namely the free will, and the self
>-will. The word indicates already that it starts with self and probably
also
>ends with self. What point is there for speaking in tongues when there is
>nobody around to interpret ? What point is there in speaking in tongues
>anyway ? If it is to glorify God , that is one thing but if only the
>slightest bit of self glory comes in , being of the same spirit as the self
>will, it will also have the same effect on the Holy Spirit.
>All I can do is ask that Gods will be done , in all the charisma, in all
the
>things , in all my life. Do I  hate my brother whom I see? Do I kill
someone
>? do I divorce ? am I unfaithful in look and thought and then deed? I doubt
>very much if any of these things can be present and at the same time the
>Holy Spirit.
>You ask if I believe that the Holy Spirit is given to people in different
>amounts. yes off course , but does that make any difference ? Not to me. I
>should rejoice when someone has more love than myself, more of the Holy
>Spirit more of anything that God gives.
>Warm greetings and let me know what you think
>much love , agape love , the love that embraces judgement
>your Klaus Meier