I'm a Calvinist, though not of the "Full Tulip" variety. More the garden variety, I guess. I have a problem with the Limited atonement. Too much "Whosoever will..." in the Bible. I also have a problem with Irrestisible Grace. That seems a bit as though God IS playing at dice with people's souls, and makes His Will seem arbitrary and whimsical. Not to mention the fact that, if they never had a chance, what right dies God have to send them to Hell? Though I understand all the arguments, I still haven't worked it all out. In fact, I'm a little skeptical of those who say that have worked it ALL out. But if I understand my seminary theology correctly, to properly understand our brother Calvin, it is essential to see it, as one on the list said, from God's perspective. We still see and understand in part, and only when the perfect has come will we see face to face. And despite my brethren who insist that Paul was referring to the complete canon of Scripture, I don't find that in the context. I believe he is referring to that time when we are united in and with Christ in the Second Advent or Heaven, and hope is realized and faith has become sight. Until that time, I think we have to make allowances for honest differences. We follow Him, and He leads us. Not every one of the "elect" will respond to the same presentation of the Gospel. Though there is only one way to God, there are myriad ways to the Way. Witness the Wise Men. And it has always seemed singular to me that they came from so far following the star, and found the Christ Child, while the scribes and Pharisees never made it the few miles from Jerusalem to Bethlehem, though their knowlege of the prophecies was extensive. It is not so much what you know, you see, as it is whether you follow what you know. OK. Enough with the soapbox already. Hope all of you have a great summer, and that DR can be a dynamic part of that. In the OLMN, Dariel the Aged aka Dave Milner _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]