[dragonraid] Acquiring wealth; Building Projects in the Dragon Lands

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From: Joe K Revesz <joerevesz@...>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 23:14:57 -0500
I put several replies together for this, since I had a comment on each. 
I am not refuting each person, just carrying on the discussion with all
these points. 

Bobby wrote:

> I hope in the new rules PC's will be allowed to acquire wealth to use
for
> building objects such as churches, orphanages, etc.  Being able to
build a
> fortress, a sanctuary of light, in the dragon lands is something I have
> greatly desired, but unfortunately the rules do not lend themselves for
> such activities.

Possibly, the idea was left out and even discouraged by having the
players give the wealth away to needy dragon slaves ASAP because
LightRaiders would be tempted to rely on their bank accounts rather than
the OverLord.  Most items given to the team to use or found by them are
either taken back after their use or turned into the Academy, according
to the published adventures,

Another consideration is the dragons, dark creatures, and dragon slaves
who help the dragons.  How long would the dragons let a building project
go on once they found out a large group of TwiceBorn were around?  I
would think that the dragons would put together at least a small army to
wipe out their enemies at some point.  Smart dragons may wait until the
thing is built so that they could take it over.

Okay, the project is hidden and/or secret.  The dragons can still can see
a TwiceBorn's Spiritual armor from a distance.  Or, some dark creature
happens upon the place and tries to warn a dragon about it.  Or, a dragon
slave stooge narks after being helped at a soup kitchen or whatever.

The sheer numbers of LightRaiders needed to defend a project of an
appreciable size begs the need for those Mass Combat rules that many
poo-pooed back when.

I think that the Dragon Lands will have to be invaded by the armies of
light at some point in EdenAgain's history, but I think that it would be
more in the future, say around a World War 2 era.  Static fortifications
would have much less importance then.

James wrote:

>I think that with some accountability built in, maybe with
>the money being turned in after every raid to an NPC who would keep 
>track of everything similar to a banker, it would be a wonderful idea. 
Of 
>course, I would think there would have to be salt raiders to manage the
new
>facilities.  All in all a good idea.

So it would have to be a communal project, not just a couple of LRs
pooling resources.  Still would have the problems mentioned above.

Nathan wrote:

>Well, you know, Jesus did say to acquire wealth to use to gain friends
so 
>that when you're in need, you won't be alone...

>Then why not use that wealth for HIS glory instead of making friends?

Wasn't Christ talking about a criminal who stole lots of money from his
boss who eventually forgave the debt because the criminal was so shrewd
at making friends by cooking his boss' books?  I think that the point was
more to use whatever wealth you have in the best way possible, God's way.
 Jesus actually said to use wealth ( not acquire it ) to make friends (
earthly or heavenly ? ) so that you would be accepted into their homes
when you were in need.  I really do not think He wanted us to buy
friends; who would want those kinds of friends anyway?

John wrote:

> I Like this idea a LOT.  I recall in other games how many players liked
> making the "big" adventures successfully, building towers, castles,
> fortresses, etc. with the booty from their Monty Haul campaigns.  Why
not
> have rules and MU given for putting this kind of thing to God's
purposes?

Better to use the money acquired to help people directly, making their
lives more bearable under the control of the dragons.  Helping
orphanages, widows, even building or funding hospitals would be, I think,
a better use of the funds than a castle that will be destroyed or invaded
by evil as soon as the dragons get around to it.

And, there is nothing like having a home to keep up.  A LightRaider could
be more mobile without the resposibilities of a keep.  I am a trustee at
my church, I know.

Aaron wrote:

> In 1119 A.D.(after Saracens slaughtered some 300 pilgrims who were on
the
> road to Jerusalem) a group of nine warrior monks calling themselves The
> Military Order of the Knights of the Temple of Solomon,(or the Knights
> Templar), swore to protect pilgrims journeying to the Holy Land. 

> Eventually word of these mens deeds spread and their numbers grew
> considerably. By the year 1130 membership numbered over 300 Knights,
and
> this growth continued. Later papal bulls granted Templars the ability
to
> build their own chapels free from diocesan control, the permision to
bury
> their own dead, and allowed them to keep booty taken from the enemy. 

> The Templars were regarded as brave and valient warriors. They were the
> first to fight the enemy and the last to retreat. The Enemy were
Saracens,
> Muslims, anyone who threatened the Christian territories, citizens, or
> pilgrims of the Holy Land.Their own RULE forbade retreat, even if
> outnumbered three to one, This resistance against insurmountable odds
is
> one of the reasons that they were so successful.

> The Knights Templar were more than warrior monks, they soon became
> bankers as well. Travelers could deposit funds in one treasury, recieve
> letters of credit, and redeem these chits at any other Templar house.
In
> time the Knights also became money-lenders, and their clients became
more
> than pilgrims; kings and nobles drew upon these services. 

> Here we have a historical example of a group of Christian warriors, who
> while doing their sworn duty eventually accumulated great wealth and
> attempted to do good with it. I don't see why LightRaiders couldnt form
a
> Born-Again version of the Knights. In fact I think it adds a level of
> believability if the characters are able to attempt good works of this
> kind, It could DEFINATELY be good story material.

Good thing the Knights Templar never had to fight dragons ;-)  Seriously,
it would take a large group of people, supplies, equipment, etc. to
defend against what should be a sustained onslaught from the dragons and
their minions.  It is easy enough to have a pile of NPCs.  But how are
you going to work in the Teaching Situations and such?  We do not have a
populations figure, but are there enough TwiceBorn to hold off the rest
of Talania's population on their home turf ( barring the OverLord's
intervention ) ?

The idea of fortifications and the like is fine if you are playing
DragonRaid as an RPG but I think that it turns the focus away from the
Mission Impossible missionary style of the LightRaider.  While you could
develop the local area around the fortification to a great degree, yo
could also be tied to it somewhat.

What other ideas do you all have to work around some of these problems?

Joe