Sounded like you've picked up a South Carolina accent to me....

MLW+

-----Original Message-----
From: The Rev. Fr. Johann W. Vanderbijl III [mailto:cranmer@...] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:18 AM
To: faithandlife@...
Subject: Re: [FaithandLife] Saintly Intercession

If you are wonder what the latar is it is Yiddish for altar...sheesh...

The Rev. Fr. Johann W. Vanderbijl III, Rector
The Anglican Church of St. George the Martyr, R.E.
427 Batesville Road
Simpsonville, SC 29681
cranmer@...
www.stgeorge-re.org
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "The Rev. Fr. Johann W. Vanderbijl III" <cranmer@...>
To: <faithandlife@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [FaithandLife] Saintly Intercession


> Another reference that may be helpful in trying to ascertain what Jews 
> believed with regard to the "saints" is Jesus story about Lazarus and the 
> rich man.  Here petitions were made to the saints (Lazarus and Abraham) 
> but they were denied stating very clearly that they had the Scriptures and

> if they did not believe them, they wodul not believed though one rose from

> the dead (or, if you will, if one warned/spoke/appeared to or whatever 
> from the dead)...but it is important to note that the "dead" were aware of

> things on earth (the rich man seemed to know that his brothers still did 
> not believe and wanted them warned - Abraham seemed to know that too) and 
> they could chat to each about things...
>
> Then again, both these stories (Saul and Samuel and the Rich Man and 
> Lazarus) are prior to the resurrection...once Sheol was invaded and the 
> captives taken up with Christ to be with Him forever, who knows what 
> changed?  At least the martyrs under the latar seemed to know that their 
> blood had not yet been avenged...
>
> The Rev. Fr. Johann W. Vanderbijl III, Rector
> The Anglican Church of St. George the Martyr, R.E.
> 427 Batesville Road
> Simpsonville, SC 29681
> cranmer@...
> www.stgeorge-re.org
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "The Rev. Fr. Johann W. Vanderbijl III" <cranmer@...>
> To: <faithandlife@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 10:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [FaithandLife] Saintly Intercession
>
>
>> The only instance of "saintly interecession" in the OT that I know of is 
>> King Saul's petition of Samuel through the medium.  there are a number of

>> interesting things to note in that particular passage:
>>
>> 1)  Saul truly believed that Samuel could be petitioned;
>> 2) Saul truly believed that Samuel would know and therefore be able to 
>> advise, exhort, warn or, as it turns out, rebuke him;
>> 3)  Samuel is actually aware of and able to speak about a situation long 
>> after his decease;
>> 4)  Samuel is able to discern the will of God after his decease and also 
>> able to prophesy concerning the future of one who was not yet deceased.
>>
>> I'm sure there is more there, but that's all I can think of right now...
>>
>> Another strange (but perhaps unrelated story) is that of the corpse that 
>> was revived/resurrected after touching the bones of Elisha (cf. 2 Kings 
>> 13:21). Maybe there is some truth about relics and miracles...no?
>>
>> The Rev. Fr. Johann W. Vanderbijl III, Rector
>> The Anglican Church of St. George the Martyr, R.E.
>> 427 Batesville Road
>> Simpsonville, SC 29681
>> cranmer@...
>> www.stgeorge-re.org
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Michael Ward" <mward@...>
>> To: <faithandlife@...>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 10:49 AM
>> Subject: RE: [FaithandLife] Saintly Intercession
>>
>>
>>> But Wayne+, you and the rest who've asked the question about whether or 
>>> not
>>> the dearly departed in the Church "Expectant" can hear us have asked a 
>>> very
>>> good one.  I guess something that might shed some light on it might be 
>>> what
>>> the Jews of the old dispensation believed.  Any Judaic scholars out 
>>> there?
>>>
>>> MLW+
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Wayne McNamara [mailto:wayne.mcnamara@...]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 10:27 AM
>>> To: faithandlife@...
>>> Subject: RE: [FaithandLife] Saintly Intercession
>>>
>>> Good point, padre.
>>>
>>> Wayne+
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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