In a message dated 1/31/06 10:43:02 AM, mward@... writes:


> But Wayne+, you and the rest who've asked the question about whether or not
> the dearly departed in the Church "Expectant" can hear us have asked a very
> good one.  I guess something that might shed some light on it might be what
> the Jews of the old dispensation believed.  Any Judaic scholars out there?
> 
> MLW+
> 

I don't know about that, but you will find, I pretty sure, that all the 
Fathers that Derrick listed in his fine post the other day, who were brilliant and 
biblical men, supported the invocation of the saints and prayers on their 
behalf. The list included "St. Clement of Alexandria, St. Hippolytus, St. Cyprian, 
St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Gregory of Nyssa, St. John Chrysostom, St. 
Ambrose, St. Hilary, St. Jerome, St. John of Damascus." In fact John of Damascus 
collected a set of saying of the Fathers in support of invocation of saints. Thus 
we have a practice that, it seems to me, the Church engaged in universally up 
until the Reformation. Prior to that time, I would suggest, the invocation of 
the saints and prayers on behalf of the blessed departed, passed the test of 
the Vincentian Canon -- "that which has been believed everywhere, always and 
by all." That these very intelligent men seemed not to be bothered by the 
question of how the blessed departed could hear prayers, is at least worth noting. 
gms+

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