Charles+ If anyone is interested, this is from another list-serve: a discussion of theosis, etc. with Lelan Harris of Bethel Seminary. MLW+ ========================= Lelan: Thanks for the comments. I've renamed the subject line on this post because I think there's more to the entire theosis issue than simply the sacraments. And to be perfectly honest, I'm not really sure what I think of the Eastern concept of theosis, even though it can be found (albeit somewhat sparingly) in my own Anglican tradition. Both Lancelot Andrewes and John Wesley wrote about it. But I would like to address what you asked below: <snip> At this time, I do not find any biblical teaching or foreshadowing that supports Ephrem's understanding of the nature, purpose, and consequences of the Daily Liturgy and Eucharist with regard to union with God. Can you provide any additional insight that connects the traditional teaching of the Eastern Orthodox and Latin West with Scripture? <snip>On the other hand, during the past months I have responded to God's invitations to deeper relational intimacy and union. Although I wouldn't use Ephrem's exact words, my own profound and sometimes dramatic experiences with the Trinity enable me relate to some of Ephrems descriptions. However, there has been no evident cause-and- effect connection between my experiences and the Lord's Supper. Indeed, the understandings I have so far received from God point in other directions altogether. I believe you've put your finger on something here: Ephrem's statements shouldn't be read in a vacuum; meaning, that it isn't just the Eucharist itself that is transformative, but is what might be called the "sacramental life". The Eucharist is simply part of that life, albeit a very fundamental part of that life. Not being a student of Eastern Orthodoxy I'll leave the tie-in to Scripture to someone with more depth in that area than I have; but I will tie it in to one particular expression of the sacramental life in the Latin West. I believe we can find strong evidence for the transformational nature of the sacramental life in the writings of Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross (and, of course, their immediate predecessor, Francisco de Osuna). While not specifically identifying their understanding of transformation as "theosis" or "divinization", the transformation they speak of certainly extends far beyond the popular evangelical notion of sanctification (which is more a moral transformation than anything else). And for both Teresa and John, it is an unwavering dedication to living the sacramental life that opens one to this transformation that results in actual participation in the Holy Trinity itself. Fundamentally, the sacramental life is made up of three elements. The first is the meeting and partaking of Christ in the Sacrament of the Altar (Eucharist). And although neither of them wrote much about the Eucharist directly, it is a given in their particular theological milieu: participation in the Eucharistic life of the Church is a fundamental part of the life of a cloistered religious. And even though frequency of this participation would have varied somewhat, I believe we can safely assume that, in keeping with the calendar of the 16th century Church, Holy Communion would have been celebrated at least weekly, and probably much more frequently due to the number of feast days in that calendar. As to how they viewed the efficacy of the Sacrament itself, without going into all of the Eucharistic theology of the Tridentine and post-Tridentine Roman Catholic Church, I think we can again safely assume that their understanding would find it's foundation in John 6, not to mention the patristic commentaries on both the Gospel of John and St Paul's letter to the Corinthians. So that would be the first element of our sacramental transformation: frequent participation in the Eucharist. The second would be a life dedicated to prayer, whether that be the Divine Offices and/or personal prayer and meditation. It is in prayer that we begin to open ourselves to God and place ourselves in a position to commune with the Holy Trinity on a very deep and personal level. And this itself is transformative because in prayer God does several things, not the least of which is reveal to us all of the things that need to be rooted out of our lives if we are truly going to make room for him (the third element of the sacramental life). Obviously, we could go on and on about what prayer is and its benefits, etc., but in a nutshell a life devoted to prayer is one of the fundamental and essential factors contributing to our sacramental transformation. Finally, as I said, there is the issue of Gospel obedience that makes room for God in our lives. Jesus said, "If you love me you will keep my commandments." And it is obedience to his commandments that removes the barriers between us and God, barriers that prevent us from participating in the life of the Trinity. John of the Cross devoted the entire "Ascent of Mount Carmel" to the idea removing our inordinate and disordered wants and desires in order to make room for and desire God alone, and this really is the key to union with him: there can be no barriers between us and him. So we must be actively pursuing a life of true Christian virtue if we are going to live our lives "in persona Christi." Now, when these three elements are brought into balance and actively pursued with dedication and determination, then we will be placing ourselves in a position to "participate" in the Holy Trinity and be "oned" with God (should he grant us that grace): not ontologically and not in some form of pantheism, but certainly on a level much more profound and sublime -- and much more real -- than we probably normally think or understand. And yes, I believe all of this can be justified by Scripture. For instance, St Paul says in 2 Co 3:18 that we are being "changed into his likeness from one degree of glory to another." Certainly this is a moral transformation, but I believe that St Paul is talking about much more than that. The same thing is true of his statement in Galatians 2:20. And St Peter says much the same thing in 2 Pt 1:3-4 where he speaks of us becoming partakers of the divine nature. And there are other passages that seem to convey similar ideas, some of which can be found in John 14. So I think the idea of transformation leading to sacramental union is very much in keeping with the witness of Holy Scripture. As an aside, one of the best studies on this topic is a book written by Thomas Dubay entitled "Fire Within". It might be worth looking at it, especially chapters 7 and 8 that deal with conditions for our growth in the sacramental life. Certainly, as far as Teresa and John were concerned, a very real and very deep participation in the life of the Holy Trinity is not only possible, but should also be the Christian norm, in this life. It's the old three-fold path of purgation, illumination, and union all over again. MLW+