Charles, I agree with you -- that the woman is the Israel of God, which is the Church who continues to bring children into the world -- with the Dragon waiting to devour them. I have an overwhelming love for Mary the Mother of our Lord, but if I am going to make a mistake I will make it on the side of the Gospel and not on the rational assumptions of zealous men who have a need for spiritual speculation. There are things that go beyond our understanding, we often call them mysteries, yet we have to try to speculate as to the how and why. Look at the Eucharist. Jesus said this is "my body....this is my blood." I don't need a theory to tell me how this takes place to believe that what He said is true. Thanks for the posting -- stmichaels Original Message: ----------------- From: charles scott crscottblu@... Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 03:55:51 -0700 (PDT) To: faithandlife@... Subject: [FaithandLife] Queen "Mother" Jack+ Your post below and the one about the relation of the Queen of Heaven to the persons in the Trinity was another way of getting at the hermeneutical question in Revelation 12. Who is the woman? The 12 star tiara suggests 12 tribes and 12 apostles that adorn the Woman who brings forth the man-child. Doesn't the Tiara suggest that the woman is the Israel of God? The end of the chapter brings us back to that thought. After the abreviated Gospel story, the woman does not go away to be cared for by John, she flees to the desert to avoid persecution by the Dragon. The Dragon continues to make war against her offspring who are those who obey God's commandments. In Matthew 24:4-25 there is recorded a prophecy of Jesus that appears to refer to the fall of Jerusalem that occured in 70 A.D. I know this is speculation, but it seems to me that John the Revelator and his audience were well aware of the fall of Jerusalem and the persecutions that the church endured in the succeeding decades. I wonder, the vision in Revelation of the flight of the woman into the desert, could it be a remembrance of the flight of the Jerusalem Christians prior to the fall of Jerusalem? Jesus said, "Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. . .How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers!" John the Revelator gives us a vision in Revelation 12 that conflates Israel of the 12 tribes with the New Israel with the apostles. That Woman brings forth the man-child caught up into heaven, and she later has offspring who keep the commandments and who continue to be pursued by the Dragon. Charles+ --- "rector@..." <rector@...> wrote: > Someone aptly entitled the subject of a posting as > "RSVP: The Queen > Mother." Now if I ain't too far off the post, it > would seem that this is a > providential slip of sorts -- in that -- everyone > knows that the Queen > Mother is not the Queen! The Queen Mother of > England, for example, was not > Elizabeth but her mummy. So, since Mary is the > "Queen Mother" does would > make the Church the Queen? Just a little rational > deduction with an > English flair. > stmichaels > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > faithandlife-unsubscribe@... > > -- To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: faithandlife-unsubscribe@... -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .