Mike+, The reason why I pursued this discussion is two-fold. First, if the concensus of APA clergy is that ECUSA is indeed apostate because of the ordination of women, then our dialogue team needs to know this. There are certain matters not worth pursuing if we lack support. Second, at the first meeting, I informed the ECUSA delegates that although the AEC/APA has never regarded ECUSA to be apostate, we have never really said what the ordination of women did. At the next meeting, I am supposed to present a paper on what we believe the decision (and act) to ordain women did to the Episcopal Church. Mark+ PS GDVW+ or Chad+, could you give me specifics about definitive council statements on the male priesthood? It would be useful for that presentation.