Tell me again that there is no Calvinism in the Church of England!  What was 
Laud--to whom you pay obeisance-- if not a "modified Calvinist," at least in 
all the reference books I have.  Regards.  KnoxDuncan@...


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "The Rev GDVWiebe SSC.,PhD" <gdvw@...>
To: <faithandlife@...>
Cc: <umamyrn@...>
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 1:34 PM
Subject: [FaithandLife] Antidisestablishmentarianist in the house? Not here!


>> Dean Scott: The decision of Gordon Brown to 'give up his historic right
> to choose Bishops' is a gross misnomer.
>
>      The PM recommends a nomination to the Sovereign AFTER discussions
> with Church leaders and the Crown Appointments Commission. The Queen is
> involved too tho 'soto voce'.
>
> The Sovereign alone (who is a devout woman) names the prelate.
>
>                                  It is then sent to the relevant
> cathedral Chapter with what is called a 'conge d elir' (e.g. vote for
> this one and this one only).
>
> Historically a failure on the part of the Chapter  so to do was a
> treasonous act. Gordon Brown is no fool. Unlike his predecessor (The
> Vicar of  Cool Brittania he was once called) Brown takes religion just a
> little more seriously.
>                                                                He knows
> that as a member of the Kirk he is ill qualified to name Bishops in
> nomination (The Kirk is a National Church and not Established-the Queen
> sends a High Commissioner to their General Assembly in Edinburgh where
> they meet interestingly enough in a building owned by the Free Church of
> Scotland on the Mound(a fine building it is-the Socttish Parliament met
> there initially).
>                                                          She does NOT
> become a Calvinist when she crosses the Border and has never attended
> (to my knowledge) the Presbyterian Lord's Supper. Not even when she was
> acclaimed Queen in Edinburgh in 1952  at the High Kirk of Scotland (St
> Giles adjacent to the Parliament Building)
>
>           Interestingly enough in the old days the brothels in the
> Royal Mile near the Synod venue reported landrush business during the
> time the elders were in session.
>
> I am not a supporter of New Labour (The Liberal Democrats for the
> moment under Sir Menzies Campbell Kt. is where I sit and would support
> were I voting in Islington) they are just 'Tory Lite' but I think Brown
> will surprise many. He is a thinking man and NOT a lawyer-a refreshing
> change.
>
>                    Blessings. GDVW+
>
>
>
>
>
> Is there an Antidisestablishmentarianist in the house?
>>
>> I've never seen that word in print, but if there is
>> such a thing as Antidisestablishmentarianism, there
>> logically should be an Antidisestablishmentarianist.
>>
>> An English teacher from the last millenium said that
>> Antidisestablishmentarianism was the longest word in
>> the English language.
>>
>> At long last, the C of E is shedding more of the
>> embarassing ties to the state, not due to any nobility
>> on the part of the Church, but because the new prime
>> minister sees the relationship as being improper if
>> not unholy.
>>
>> Charles+
>> "--------------------------------
>>
>> LONDON: Brown to give up power to pick Church leaders
>>
>> By Patrick Hennessy, Political Editor
>> Sunday Telegraph
>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/10/nbrown210.xml
>> 6/10/2007
>>
>> Gordon Brown is preparing to give up the prime
>> minister's historic right to choose the Archbishop of
>> Canterbury - and other Church of England bishops.
>>
>> The move to grant "operational independence" to the
>> Church will represent one of the biggest changes to
>> its relationship with the state for centuries. It is
>> just one of a swathe of "royal prerogative" powers,
>> held by the prime minister, which Mr Brown is planning
>> to do away with once he takes over at Number 10 later
>> this month.
>>
>> In a move he has already announced, he will also give
>> up his prerogative power to declare war without the
>> consent of parliament. Military action, such as the
>> invasion of Iraq, will in future have to be approved
>> in advance by MPs.
>>
>> Mr Brown, whose father was a minister in the Church of
>> Scotland, is determined that the Church of England
>> will make up its own mind on who should succeed Rowan
>> Williams as Archbishop of Canterbury and spiritual
>> head of 70 million Anglicans worldwide. He was
>> appointed in 2002.
>>
>> The Sunday Telegraph can reveal that the prime
>> minister-in-waiting has asked officials and senior
>> politicians with close links to the Church to
>> investigate the best way that he can renounce the
>> "power of patronage".
>>
>> At the moment, the Crown Nominations Commission,
>> considers candidates for vacancies for diocesan
>> bishops, as well as the archbishops of Canterbury and
>> York, whenever they arise.
>>
>> A list of two names, often in order of precedence, is
>> then put to the prime minister who can select either
>> name or ask the commission to provide a further name
>> or names.
>>
>> However, a leading supporter of the Chancellor said:
>> "Gordon does not believe that the PM should be
>> involved with the selection of the head of the Church
>> - or any other clergy. He is actively seeking ways of
>> ending this power of patronage."
>>
>> One possible way forward would be for archbishops and
>> bishops simply to be selected by the commission,
>> without any input from Number 10, or by the General
>> Synod of the Church of England, a body about
>> 500-strong which includes clergy and lay members. The
>> next meeting of the synod, scheduled for next month,
>> may discuss the role of the prime minister in Church
>> appointments.
>>
>> A papal-style "election" of the Archbishop of
>> Canterbury by leading church figures is another
>> possibility, but is not thought particularly likely to
>> be introduced.
>>
>> Mr Brown wants his government to be seen as
>> representing "all faiths and all cultures," and not
>> tied significantly to the Church of England. His
>> proposals raise the possibility that he might take
>> steps to remove the right of bishops to take their
>> seats in the House of Lords.
>>
>> Chris Bryant, the Labour MP and a former vicar, said:
>> "I think it would be far better if the Church was
>> independent of the power of the prime minister."
>>
>> Church insiders have confirmed they are aware of Mr
>> Brown's proposals. A source added: "We would need to
>> look carefully at any proposal which is put forward to
>> establish whether any legislative or other changes
>> were needed."
>>
>> Other prerogative powers held by the prime minister
>> include the right to appoint and dismiss ministers,
>> the decision on when to call a general election, the
>> declaration of a state of emergency and even decisions
>> on the creation of new universities.
>>
>> --
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