You're right, Fr. Wiebe, "party labels" don't necessarily convey much
meaning. In England in the 17th and 18th Centuries, I suppose I'd have
been a "Whig," by the following definition: "...a political party which grew
up in England in the 17th Century, in the reigns of Charles I and II,
respecting the royal prerogatives and the rights of the people. Those who
supported the high claims of the king were called Tories. The advocates of
popular rights--of parliamentary power over the crown and of toleration of
Dissenters-- were, after 1679, called Whigs." In America in 1776, "Whig"
came to mean a proponent of the Revolution, and for sure, l'd have been one
at that time. Later the Whigs in America were those who opposed Andrew
Jackson. Even though I have ancestor named Andrew Jackson Duncan (whose
father fought in the War of 1812), most likely, like Lincoln, I probably
would have continued as a Whig in the 1860s. Since my folks in the
Cumberland Gap of Tennessee fought on both sides in the "Civil War" ("War
Between the States," as you please) the situation gets cloudier.
Economically, like Milton Friedman, a slightly modified "free market" seems
to me best for the fair distribution of wealth. In re theology, as I've
often said, the Anglican "via media" is my banner. You and Dean Scott might
enjoy the following story about Jonathan Swift. One by Mark Twain also
follows.
"During the years in which he [Jonathan Swift, "Gulliver's Travels"] found
time to write these playful letters to Stella he was growing into a man of
power. Like Defoe he was a journalist, but one of far more authority. The
power of his pen was such that he was courted by his friends, feared by his
enemies. He threw himself into the struggle of party, first as a Whig then
as a Tory; but as a friend said of him later, "He was neither Whig nor Tory,
neither Jacobite nor Republican. He was Dr. Swift." He was now, he
says:--"Grown old in politicks and wit, Caress'd by ministers of State, Of
half mankind the dread and hate." (from "Cadenus and Vanessa")
And [Swift] felt that he deserved reward for what he had done for his party.
He thought that he should have been made a bishop. But even in those days,
when little thought was given to the fitness of a man for such a position,
the Queen steadily refused to make the author of "A Tale of a Tub" a bishop.
Again Swift felt that he was unjustly treated, and even when he was at
length made Dean of St. Patrick's that consoled him little. He longed for
power, and owned that he was never so happy as when treated like a lord. He
longed for wealth, for "wealth," he said, "is liberty, and liberty is a
blessing fittest for a philosopher." And if Swift was displeased at being
made only a Dean, the Irish people were equally displeased with him as their
Dean. As he rode through the streets of Dublin to take possession of his
Deanery, the people threw stones and mud at him and hooted him as he passed.
The clergy, too, made his work as Dean as hard as possible. But Swift set
himself to conquer them, and soon he had his own way even in trifles.
Mark Twain, I suspect, was a Whig. These lines from "Tom Sawyer Detective"
brings a smile to my face: "Then we loafed along past the Nickersons, and
of course they asked if that was the new stranger yonder, and where'd he
come from, and what was his name, and which communion was he, Babtis' or
Methodis', and which politics, Whig or Democrat, and how long is he staying,
and all them other questions that humans always asks when a stranger comes,
and animals does, too." .
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Rev GDVWiebe SSC.,PhD" <gdvw@...>
To: <faithandlife@...>
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2007 1:39 PM
Subject: [FaithandLife] No One Is Perfect-Even the Elect
> >Frater: Brown' s 'socialism' is hardly anything for anyone
> to worry about. Scots historically have often had an inclination towards
> collective assistance of one sort or another.
>
> The Church of Scotland's folk have had many very good
> social programmes that predated the 20th century.
> Disestablishmentarianism is probably a sin. Look what happened to
> PECUSA/ECUSA/TEC!?!?! Most Labourites today are Lite Tories. Blessings.
> GDVW+
>
>
>
>
> As a dedicated "disestablishmentarianist" I applaud Gordon Brown's move.
>> As
>> was his father, I assume Brown is a member of the Church of Scotland
>> (Presbyterian), who do not much relish "royal preogatives." ('Tis a pity
>> he's a Socialist.) When the Queen is in Scotland, as I understand it,
>> she
>> too is a Presbyterian and may sit in synod but may not rule. I
>> understate,
>> mo doubt, when I say that Scotland has never sung "Rule Britannia" with
>> much gusto:
>>
>> RULE BRITANNIA by Thomas Augustine Arne, 1740. (There's a Union name
>> for
>> you!)
>>
>> When Britain first, at heaven's command,
>> Arose from out the azure main,
>> Arose, arose, arose from out the a-azure main,
>> This was the charter, the charter of the land,
>> And guardian angels sang this strain:
>>
>> Rule Britannia!
>> Britannia rule the waves.
>> Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.
>> Rule Britannia!
>> Britannia rule the waves.
>> Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.
>>
>> The nations, not so blest as thee,
>> Must in their turn, to tyrants fall,
>> Must in ,must in, must in their turn, to tyrants fall,
>> While thou shalt flourish, shalt flourish great and free,
>> The dread and envy of them all.
>> (Chorus)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "charles scott" <crscottblu@...>
>> To: "faith life" <faithandlife@...>
>> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 12:32 PM
>> Subject: [FaithandLife] Antidisestablishmentarianist in the house?
>>
>>
>>> Is there an Antidisestablishmentarianist in the house?
>>>
>>> I've never seen that word in print, but if there is
>>> such a thing as Antidisestablishmentarianism, there
>>> logically should be an Antidisestablishmentarianist.
>>>
>>> An English teacher from the last millenium said that
>>> Antidisestablishmentarianism was the longest word in
>>> the English language.
>>>
>>> At long last, the C of E is shedding more of the
>>> embarassing ties to the state, not due to any nobility
>>> on the part of the Church, but because the new prime
>>> minister sees the relationship as being improper if
>>> not unholy.
>>>
>>> Charles+
>>> "--------------------------------
>>>
>>> LONDON: Brown to give up power to pick Church leaders
>>>
>>> By Patrick Hennessy, Political Editor
>>> Sunday Telegraph
>>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/10/nbrown210.xml
>>> 6/10/2007
>>>
>>> Gordon Brown is preparing to give up the prime
>>> minister's historic right to choose the Archbishop of
>>> Canterbury - and other Church of England bishops.
>>>
>>> The move to grant "operational independence" to the
>>> Church will represent one of the biggest changes to
>>> its relationship with the state for centuries. It is
>>> just one of a swathe of "royal prerogative" powers,
>>> held by the prime minister, which Mr Brown is planning
>>> to do away with once he takes over at Number 10 later
>>> this month.
>>>
>>> In a move he has already announced, he will also give
>>> up his prerogative power to declare war without the
>>> consent of parliament. Military action, such as the
>>> invasion of Iraq, will in future have to be approved
>>> in advance by MPs.
>>>
>>> Mr Brown, whose father was a minister in the Church of
>>> Scotland, is determined that the Church of England
>>> will make up its own mind on who should succeed Rowan
>>> Williams as Archbishop of Canterbury and spiritual
>>> head of 70 million Anglicans worldwide. He was
>>> appointed in 2002.
>>>
>>> The Sunday Telegraph can reveal that the prime
>>> minister-in-waiting has asked officials and senior
>>> politicians with close links to the Church to
>>> investigate the best way that he can renounce the
>>> "power of patronage".
>>>
>>> At the moment, the Crown Nominations Commission,
>>> considers candidates for vacancies for diocesan
>>> bishops, as well as the archbishops of Canterbury and
>>> York, whenever they arise.
>>>
>>> A list of two names, often in order of precedence, is
>>> then put to the prime minister who can select either
>>> name or ask the commission to provide a further name
>>> or names.
>>>
>>> However, a leading supporter of the Chancellor said:
>>> "Gordon does not believe that the PM should be
>>> involved with the selection of the head of the Church
>>> - or any other clergy. He is actively seeking ways of
>>> ending this power of patronage."
>>>
>>> One possible way forward would be for archbishops and
>>> bishops simply to be selected by the commission,
>>> without any input from Number 10, or by the General
>>> Synod of the Church of England, a body about
>>> 500-strong which includes clergy and lay members. The
>>> next meeting of the synod, scheduled for next month,
>>> may discuss the role of the prime minister in Church
>>> appointments.
>>>
>>> A papal-style "election" of the Archbishop of
>>> Canterbury by leading church figures is another
>>> possibility, but is not thought particularly likely to
>>> be introduced.
>>>
>>> Mr Brown wants his government to be seen as
>>> representing "all faiths and all cultures," and not
>>> tied significantly to the Church of England. His
>>> proposals raise the possibility that he might take
>>> steps to remove the right of bishops to take their
>>> seats in the House of Lords.
>>>
>>> Chris Bryant, the Labour MP and a former vicar, said:
>>> "I think it would be far better if the Church was
>>> independent of the power of the prime minister."
>>>
>>> Church insiders have confirmed they are aware of Mr
>>> Brown's proposals. A source added: "We would need to
>>> look carefully at any proposal which is put forward to
>>> establish whether any legislative or other changes
>>> were needed."
>>>
>>> Other prerogative powers held by the prime minister
>>> include the right to appoint and dismiss ministers,
>>> the decision on when to call a general election, the
>>> declaration of a state of emergency and even decisions
>>> on the creation of new universities.
>>>
>>> --
>>> To unsubscribe, send ANY message to:
>>> faithandlife-unsubscribe@...
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
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