I think one thing our jurisdiction could use is a national Canonical
conference for the purpose of bringing everyone up to speed on our
polity. Of course a Canonical Synod would be presided over by Bishop
Grundorf. He could call it.
Glenn+
-----Original Message-----
From: gmspencer@...
To: faithandlife@...
Sent: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 3:58 pm
Subject: Re: [FaithandLife] APA & CCP
Dear Mike+
In my experience, Bp. Grundorf stands heads above any bishops I've ever
know and that includes the CCP bishops. Over the years many
congregations have known his kindness, wideness of heart and grace by
first hand experience because he allows parishes to associate with the
APA without full membership. By virtue of his Officium he may and has
exercised Apostolic economia that has brought peace and rest to many
parishes far before those parishes were ready for full membership. Too
bad that isn't true of the CCP. It feels coercive for the CCP to begin
shutting the doors and drawing lines in the sand this way. It is of
course their right, but it is unwise and coercive. Is coercion
something that members will continue to experience as the CCP moves
through its various stages of existence? I don't know the answer, but I
have come, in my old age, to pay more attention to what people do than
to sweetened words spoken. They could all learn a lot about bishoping
by paying attention to our Bishop.
Glenn+
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael L. Ward <mward@...>
To: faithandlife@...
Sent: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 3:25 pm
Subject: RE: [FaithandLife] APA & CCP
Yep, we are agreed completely. He could have 100% support and still
not
consent to joining CCP. And, of course, the opposite is also true.
The
decision is entirely his to make. Hopefully when the time comes to
officially make the decision we will all be of one mind (at least as
much as
possible) since "observer status" will be completely off the table as
an
option after our July synod.
MLW+
-----Original Message-----
From: gmspencer@... [mailto:gmspencer@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 2:56 PM
To: faithandlife@...
Subject: Re: [FaithandLife] APA & CCP
Dear Mike+
Absolutely it would have a huge effect on his decision! What I'm
concerned
about is that our polity is being confused (not by you) by some folks
on
these blogs with TEC polity. The most basic authority in TEC is the
National
Convention. Our most basic authority is the Bible, but we believe our
Presiding Bishop, by the grace of God, will lead us through the narrow
way
that leads to life. In some cases the synod is his instrument, not the
other
way around. Synodical authority in designated areas has teeth, but even
then
it is largely negative. For example, the Standing Committee per our
canons
must interview candidates for ordination and either pass on them or
not. But
even if the SC just loves a candidate to death it cannot compel the
Bishop
or ordain him if he chooses not to. If the Bishop wants to ordain
someone
then he gets the SC consent. I think the same is true of ecclesiastical
relations between jurisdictions. Ultimately regardless of votes and
polls
the onus is upon our Apostolic Man and really I can't see anywhere in
the
canons or tradition where he needs anyone's permission to effect such
relationships. Now it may not be prudent to actually use one's
authority at
any given time and all Bishops have had their methods of consulting
with
their clergy and sometimes laity (and more often not laity). Several
people
writing on these blogs seem to assume that our Bishop is an instrument
of
the synod. Even if the synod voted 100% for membership in an
institution it
would not be effected until the Bishop effected it sacramentally with
the
intention of effecting it. And there may be very good reasons for him
to
defy a synod and he would be exercising his godly authority legally if
that's what he did.
(One can imagine a real life situation during the 5os and 60s when
godly
Bishops would ignore an overwhelming majority on the issue of
race.) But no decisions come with "get out of jail free" cards for any
of
us, including our Bishops. The exercise of authority always has a
personal
cost. My point, and I'm sure we are in agreement on this, is that the
Bishop
is not an instrument of any committee or any synod.
Glenn+
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael L. Ward <mward@...>
To: faithandlife@...
Sent: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 2:20 pm
Subject: RE: [FaithandLife] APA & CCP
Glenn+
That's not quite what I was getting at. The bishop does it, but if
(say)
70% of the clergy and laity at Provincial Synod say they'd really like
to do
it, wouldn’t that have some effect on his decision?
MLW+
-----Original Message-----
From: gmspencer@... [mailto:gmspencer@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 12:28 PM
To: faithandlife@...
Subject: Re: [FaithandLife] APA & CCP
Dear Michael+
I have searched our canons and I cannot find a canon that actually
authorizes a synod to effect such a relationship. Historically it has
been
the authority of the bishops to effect new ecclesiastical
relationships. Of
course I could be missing something.
Glenn+
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael L. Ward <mward@...>
To: faithandlife@...
Sent: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 11:02 am
Subject: RE: [FaithandLife] APA & CCP
Here's the title of the article on Virtue. Unfortunate inasmuch as we
haven't voted on this one way or the other.
Anglican Province of America Pulls out of Common Cause Partnership
MLW+
From: John S. Longcamp
[mailto:jlongcamp@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2008 10:44
AM
To: faithandlife@...
Subject: [FaithandLife]
APA & CCP
Brothers+
For several days I have been seeing discussion on Virtue on Line about
Bishop Grundorf's letter to his clergy. I have not received a copy
from the
diocese nor have I seen mention of it on FaithandLife. What is going
on?
The question of our (APA's) participation in CCP previously has caused
considerable discussion.
Did this letter ever go out?
If not, how did David Virtue+ get a
copy?
What is the significance of the silence on FaithandLife?
John+
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