>
Thank you for your frank response to my efforts to be clear
as to where the Catholic Church is/should be going in this
'tempest in a thimble' over sexuality.
My only objection to PECUSA/ECUSA/TEC
in 1976 was the attempt to priest women-solely on
theological and oecumenical grounds. This was made clear in
our written and public objection to the diocesan
authorities. In the Diocese of California there were many
of like mind.
The Meissen Agreement ( Anglicanism and German Lutherans)
did not then exist nor did Porvoo (the same thing with
Scandinavian Lutherans such as the Svenska Kyrkan which
still has at keast residual Apostolic Succession and with
whom we have been in 'communio in sacris' since before World
War 2).
If it is 'revisionist' to try to minister to all of God's
Creation and to use ones brain, reason and study, then I
plead guilty and gladly so. This is not 'Spongism' either. He
is still reacting to his Presbyterian Fundamentalist (what a
combo) upbringing. From one extreme to the other.
You allege (as do others)that homosexuals can be
'cured'-Cured of what is my response.
I have suggested Fr Daniel J Helmniak PhD,
Ed.D. and the late Prof Louis Smedes ThD. (One an RC priest
and one a Calvinist elder of the type so beloved of too many
in the Continuum) who suggest a position similar to my own.
Curious to say the least.
I do not propose to 'do a Luther' and justify anything beyond
what I (And many others) have said and who I have cited-over
and over again.
The facts speak for themselves to all fair minded and
informed folk. I think in the end what many of us are asking
for will prevail for the good of all.
Homosexuality neither (to cited
Thomas Jefferson) 'neither breaks my leg nor robs my pocket'.
Or that of anyone else.
Many folk (including some in the medical community) believe
that many who are homophobic are in fact terrified (because
of culture and upbringing) that THEY may possibly be
afflicted with 'the crime that cannot be mentioned in
Christian society'(as the old Carolina Statute called it).
One
would think that such a situation would at least cautiuon
them towards the side of kindness, generosity and Christian
charity.
No real homosexual will ever be 'cured' and to subject such
to the horrors of some sort of 'deprogramming' is a sin.
I have cited on more than one occasion the work of the RC
organisation (mainly in New York City ) "COURAGE" which I
commend; but no one seems much interested.
Someone recently said that s/he hoped to serve all of the one
race-the human race. I have to ask does that race include the
gay or lesbian?
I asked for folk to prioritise three situations: Abortion,
Homosexuality, Women's Ordination. One replied they believed
all were the same thing.
Is it any wonder then that many of us feel like blind men in a
conference hall of the deaf?
I'm off to study Nestorianism in ancient China and its
influence on Buddhism. Should be fun. Blessings. GDVW+
----- Original Message -----
> From: "The Rev GDVWiebe SSC.,PhD" <gdvw@...>
> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 4:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [FaithandLife] RSVP/RSVP PATHETIC: GLOBAL ANGLICAN FUTURE -
> JERUSALEM 2008
>
>
>>> It is about civil rights/justice and equality in the civil sphere. Its
>> no joke and is not a fixation. Blessings. GDVW+
>
> I think we can all thank Fr. Wiebe for his frank answers, one of which
> above
> speaks volumes. Clearly, with the one exception of the very important
> issue
> of women's ordination, he holds to the revisionist "theology" of The
> Episcopal Church.
>
> By treating homosexuals as a persecuted minority rather than encouraging
> them to come to Christ for healing -- spiritual and, in more cases that
> Fr.
> Wiebe is able to admit, sexual -- The Episcopal Church and Fr. Wiebe are
> denying people with homosexual inclinations the full benefits of the
> gospel.
>
> I personally know two men who have come out of the homosexual life style.
> One has been happily married for many years, and I was honored to be asked
> to be godfather to their third child. The other has been single and
> celibate for seven years after many years of struggle. During many of his
> years spent in the gay lifestyle he sought help through the Episcopal
> Church. Two priest counselors came on to him and the others told him the
> line that Fr. Wiebe endorses.
>
> Finally he realized the emptiness of TEC's teachings on homosexuality and
> fled to the Roman Catholic Church where he was accepted as a person
> without
> having his lifestyle given approval. (Please don't argue with that
> knee-jerk gay activist line that it is impossible to hate the sin and love
> the sinner, for that is not only what Jesus did but also what he taught us
> to do as well.) Seven years ago with the help of a good secular
> psychiatrist and the loving support of a Baptist congregation that is
> always
> there for him, he broke free and is the happiest and most at ease I have
> even seen him in the 41 years I have known him. I thank God for what He
> has
> done in this man's life and for what a group of Baptists did by following
> our Lord in loving this sinner and hating the sin that held him in its
> grip.
> (In this case "hating the sin" means not giving in to approving his
> lifestyle.) He would never have found healing had these people, too, told
> him he deserved justice and approval.
>
> John+
>
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