> Dean Scott+: Loved the second to the last paragraph in this cybergramme.!!In the old days (and in Rome untill Vatican 2) there were the various minor Orders/Offices. When Rome jettisoned them (as did the C of E in the 16th c) a real treasury (at least potentially was lost). Monastics did not come into real being untill the 3-5th c and we had deaconesses untill the Middle Ages in the West. Kyriakos Fitzgerald has an excellent book on this ancient Office/Order in the Greek Church. Worth reading. Blessings. GDVW+ > > Is it either true or helpful to think of our brothers as being > homophobes? Let's stop name implying or name calling and discuss the > issues. > > If other generations of churchmen had been clearer about vocations, > especially for vocations other than to the three-fold ministry, and given > proper honor to the same, we might not be calling women "dollies" who > aspired to Christian service. We might think . that past leaders in the > church failed in teaching proper apostolates before they failed in > practice. > > We may think we in the APA have done better than other communions by > having what we perceive as a correct view of orders, but have we > really? Its not enough to damn the opposition. Obviously there is a need > to recover the richer view of vocations that the church once had if we are > to avoid the aberrations that have grown up since the enlightenment and > reformation. > > With the subject of vocations in mind, read Matthew 12:46 through chapter > 13 with the 19th and 20th chapters of Matthew. Also think on the orders of > which St. Paul speaks, including his own. By the time Matthew's Gospel > was reduced to writing, Jesus had sent the various disciples on > apostolates and had sown seed on both rocky and fertile soils. > > Persecutions had already begun, with scourgings in synagogues and > disciples as well as their Lord turned over to governors for trial, > beatings and death. In the Gospels Jesus called 12 and 70 and sent them > off on missions, apostolates. The Gospel writers make it clear that all > sorts of people had missions and were held in honor, even the Magdelene. > But what about the Eunuchs? Paul said that Peter could lead about a wife, > but he like those mentioned in Matthew had given up family for the sake of > the Kingdom. > > WHATEVER HAPPENED TO EUNUCHS FOR THE KINGDOM¢S SAKE? > > > New American Standard Bible (NASB) > "For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; > and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also > eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. > He who is able to accept this let him accept it." > > > New International Version (NIV) > For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made > that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom > of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it." Matthew > 19:11-13 > > Because I have held "secular" positions to support my family and my > ministry all but seven of over 40 years, I have met and befriended many > people who for one reason or another were not suitable candidates for > marriage. Some of these were church members who did make confession and > come to communion and were struggling with loneliness and the question of > their sexuality. But beyond the question of desires and passions and what > stimulates them is the question of vocation. A priest does not minimize > the problem nor ignore it. A priest takes the person's situation > seriously and listens, admitting his own sinfulness and failings. A > priest, once he has a glimpse of the pain and sees his own brokeness as > well as that of the other, is in a better position to pray the Our Father > with the one who has sought solace and counsel. > > Most priests are ill-equiped to attempt psychological counselling, but we > have tools that help in healing the soul and often those tools help in > other areas of a person's life. A member once commented that he was > lonely, alienated and knew he was crazy because everyone in his work place > and even his family said so. He told me he knew he was going to hell. > One doesn't comment on these self-evaluations as we are in no position to > know or judge. What to do? No need to condemn, these people have had > enough of that, and blame themselves as well as others. If the person is > baptized, we are in a position to offer pray the confession with him and > offer the healing sacraments, (comfortable) strengthening words, and > encourage that individual to find his apostolate. I don't claim as some > do, to have "turned" a homosexual into a "normal" person. But I can look > back on some who became "Eunuchs for the Kingdom" and some, have made > lasting > marriages. God > provides many pleasing outcomes if we will allow it. > > Granting respect by listening, showing genuine concern by offering > friendship and helping that other person find a place of service in the > kingdom helps heal all sorts and conditions of men. > > We can, as priests, hold high the sacrament of marriage without being > homophobic. Marriage is both a sacrament and a holy calling or vocation. > There are many others that we tend to overlook because of our anemic > teaching on vocations. > > Charles+ > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/23/08, JADAGENCY@... <JADAGENCY@...> wrote: > > From: JADAGENCY@... <JADAGENCY@...> > Subject: Re: [FaithandLife] RSVP/RSVP PATHETIC: GLOBAL ANGLICAN FUTURE - > JERUSAL... > To: faithandlife@... > Date: Monday, June 23, 2008, 8:24 PM > > > > > > > As one friend once said to me.... > > "Show me a homophobe and I will show you a guy who kisses Brad Pitt's > picture before retiring at night" > > JAD+ > > > > > > Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used > cars. > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > faithandlife-unsubscribe@... > > > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > faithandlife-unsubscribe@... > >