Bishop:
I don't know that any of us will be entirely settled but, as I said, we'll
have some tough decisions to make in about 11 days. I just pray that either
way, we aren't acting in haste.
MLW+
-----Original Message-----
From: bpfick@... [mailto:bpfick@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 12:27 PM
To: faithandlife@...
Subject: [FaithandLife] Re: faithandlife Digest 12 Jul 2008 15:56:22 -0000
Issue 1309
Brothers,
Finally, while it does little to settle my heart, these past few exchanges
zero in on precisely the difficulties involved.
+Frederick
---------------------------------------------------------
And why I think we should wait. I'm just praying we don't have a split on
our hands in 11 days.
And don't worry, I didn't take it personally. The last thing any of us needs
is to be isolationist in this day and age.
What a mess.
MLW+
From: John X. Leal [mailto:jlealx1@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 11:44 AM
To: faithandlife@...
Subject: RE: [FaithandLife] From the Office of the Presiding Bishop of the
Reformed Episcopal Church
Decisions about how to proceed:
Agreed to create a Province (not a federation), and to
define what that means: concilliar in nature, with a common worship, common
mission and common governance. The specifics of these will be agreed by the
Executive Committee after work from several task forces.
Agreed not to announce the creation of a Province at this
time or at GAFCON.
Agreed to create a Book of Common Prayer. A task force will
undertake this within guidelines specified below.
Honestly I haven't seen this...now I understand were your concern comes
from....
BTW I don't think your a Donatist (schismatic) that's why the use of the
word "we"...all of us....
J+
From: Michael L. Ward [mailto:mward@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 9:56 AM
To: faithandlife@...
Subject: RE: [FaithandLife] From the Office of the Presiding Bishop of the
Reformed Episcopal Church
John+
I read that. That's why I'm totally confused. The minutes of the Executive
Committee of CCP state this (I've clipped this from the minutes themselves):
Decisions about how to proceed:
Agreed to create a Province (not a federation), and to
define what that means: concilliar in nature, with a common worship, common
mission and common governance. The specifics of these will be agreed by the
Executive Committee after work from several task forces.
Agreed not to announce the creation of a Province at this
time or at GAFCON.
Agreed to create a Book of Common Prayer. A task force will
undertake this within guidelines specified below.
I'm not sure anyone has any idea where things currently stand. What +Riches
says doesn't jibe with what the Executive Committee of CCP is indicating
above (I assume he read these minutes, maybe not). What he describes is
certainly what CCP currently is but not what it's planning to be. And
that's why I think we need to wait to see how it all plays out. I'm not
being Donatist by saying "not yet" (the Donatist never took that stance -
see Augustine Against the Donatists). Nor am I saying we should never be a
unified part of whatever comes out of this. What I am saying is "wait and
see"; and that isn't an irrevocable stance. We're in by virtue of FACA, but
not as a direct partner. Perhaps that is the prudent thing to remain until
such time as the whole w/o issue gets ironed out. All I'm arguing for is
patience, not isolationism.
MLW+
From: John X. Leal [mailto:jlealx1@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 10:31 AM
To: faithandlife@...
Subject: RE: [FaithandLife] From the Office of the Presiding Bishop of the
Reformed Episcopal Church
# The commitment of the Primates anticipates the formation of a new
ecclesiastical structure for North America, to be presented to the Primates'
Council for recognition as a province. Work on the formation of this new
structure has engaged the Lead Bishops' Executive Committee throughout the
past ten months, ever since the College of Bishops of the Common Cause
Partnership met in Pittsburgh in September, 2007, and commissioned us with
the task. Relationships within this new structure will continue to be
federated, with jurisdictions retaining individual identities, integrities,
and autonomy.
If this is the case (as it relates to GAFCON) then it seems that there are
no worries about loosing your identity. I can promise you that the REC wont
bend on that issue. All of the FACA member churches are committed to an all
male priesthood and bishopric. As for the CCP the only way to influence
policy is from within. We have to be careful that we don't become in effect
Donatists and remember that the church is in the process of a historical
correction that will be for the benefit of the future generations. In my
opinion we have to decide which side of history do we want to be on.
IMHO
J+
From: Michael L. Ward [mailto:mward@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 9:14 AM
To: faithandlife@...
Subject: RE: [FaithandLife] From the Office of the Presiding Bishop of the
Reformed Episcopal Church
Women's ordination, for the most part. Currently the CCP is a federation,
but the most recent minutes of the CCP executive committee indicate that the
intent is to form a province, not a federation. In other words, all partners
who are now maintaining the integrity of their structures are only doing so
by virtue of CCP being a federation. The plan is for CCP to become a single
province ("not a federation" - that's a quote from the CCP executive
committee), which means that all the individual structures disappear into
one single province (or one church) with a new BCP, new canons, etc. And
there is simply no way to do this without first being agreed on the whole
issue of women's ordination, to begin with. And, of course, GAFCON has
indicated that the plan is to recognize CCP as a province. If the "province"
could stay a federation, this would probably work (at least for the APA) as
many of us have little problem being in CCP as a federation. But we can't do
it as single organic province where women's ordination will be something
we'll just have to learn to live with.
That's what's holding things up.
MLW+
From: John X. Leal [mailto:jlealx1@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 9:53 AM
To: faithandlife@...
Subject: RE: [FaithandLife] From the Office of the Presiding Bishop of the
Reformed Episcopal Church
Have you ever gone to do yard work and picked up an extension cord (that was
wound up nice and neat). In the process of unraveling the cord it ends up
all tangled up so you have to spend an extra few minutes (or and hour)
straightening the cord out till it is good to use? This will happen to me
this morning as I go out to do my yard. That is what comes to mind when I
read your email.
You hear what I am saying?
"....if the APA doesn't ratify our membership in CCP in a couple of weeks,"
So whats holding things up?
J+
From: Michael L. Ward [mailto:mward@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 8:03 AM
To: faithandlife@...
Subject: RE: [FaithandLife] From the Office of the Presiding Bishop of the
Reformed Episcopal Church
John+
I'm hoping someone will be able to help me out with something I've never
been able to figure out.
We (APA) are already in CCP by virtue of FACA, and +Boyce has voice by
virtue of +Hewett. If the APA doesn't become a full partner in CCP later
this month, and if +Boyce stays, that situation doesn't change.
+Duncan has indicated numerous times that he and the ACN cannot accept
dioceses or individual parish churches, so that leaves +Boyce to leave the
APA (again, if we don't ratify our membership) and align himself as the DoW
of the REC. But then, he only has voice through +Riches, which is the same
situation he has now with +Hewett (and, by the way, will be the same
situation he would have if we do ratify our membership as it will be
+Grundorf at the table, not +Boyce).
So, unless I'm missing something huge (which I usually do), what is gained
by +Boyce splitting the APA when, either way, he and the rest of the APA are
already in CCP by virtue of FACA and, in the end, his statues doesn't change
one way or the other?
To answer your question directly, John+, if the APA doesn't ratify our
membership in CCP in a couple of weeks, and if +Boyce leaves and takes the
DoW with him, then the APA will split.
MLW+
From: John X. Leal [mailto:jlealx1@...]
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 8:26 AM
To: faithandlife@...
Subject: RE: [FaithandLife] From the Office of the Presiding Bishop of the
Reformed Episcopal Church
WOW! So how does that effect the entire APA?
John+
From: KnoxDuncan [mailto:KnoxDuncan@...]
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:56 PM
To: faithandlife@...
Subject: Re: [FaithandLife] From the Office of the Presiding Bishop of the
Reformed Episcopal Church
Thanks for the message, John. By the way, as you may know, Bishop Richard
Boyce (Diocese of the West , APA) has written his clergy that he plans to
continue full partnership in Common Cause, with Bishop Duncan and the REC.
Bishop Boyce also was a delegate to GAFCON. Regards. X
KnoxDuncan@...
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