Y'all, Paul+ nails it on the proverbial head. One of the things that Wright does so well, in my opinion, is get back behind modern notions of individualism to the Biblical notion of community. As I explained recently to my, the Enlightenment reversed the flow of identity. Whereas in ancient times, the nation gave identity to its tribes which gave identity to its families which gave identity to the members of each family, today the individual is seen as giving allegiance to family, ethnicity, nation, etc. In my opinion, except for only the modern notion of the separation of religion from state, this reversal of the source of identity leads to some of the greatest misunterpretations of Scripture. Mark+ PS I am going to be busy moving house for the next fews days, if one of you want to go ahead a do an overview of chap. 2, I'd appreciate it. I'll join in on the discussion as time permits between this afternoon and Sunday. PPS Blessed Ascension everyone!