> Rev & Dear Father: I have been reading the responses to 'Paul the
Pharisee' and I saw your comment and must say that the whole concept of
'saved' has been so distorted and caricatured by Calvinists and
Anabaptist televangelists as to be almost meaningless. Growing up in
southern California there was a large religious edifice around the
corner from the main library that had a giant sign 'JESUS SAVES' on the
roof of the 13 floor. We always wanted to add "... and Buddha Buys On
Margin..." but that was too long. The problem is that if one buys the
fifth point of 'TULIP' then if one is predestined to salvation one is
'saved' regardless (e.g. Stalin goes up and St Francis goes down sort of
thing).The televangelists only award 'salvation' if one gives enough (or
worse) subjectively 'feels the spirit' (which spirit I do not know). And
yet, the NT says "Baptism doth now save us". And this (Wesley had
something to say about this before he went off the rails) to the effect
that it is in the community alone (The Church) where we work out the
salvation that begins at the font.( And in NO other place).For what it
is worth I don't think that the often misunderstood Saul/Paul (and I'm
no Paulist -which would please him I think:)!) would disagree. Certainly
not after the Council of Jerusalem! As priests we have to keep repeating
this; however unattractive it is sometimes because that is what(and all)
we have received. The Church IS the Ark of Salvation. There is no other.
In the Noah story the people were saved if they were in the Ark;not
outside.I will confess that I grow weary of the endless "Law & Gospel"
(Justification/Sanctification) debates and discussions. Like the Eastern
Church many of us believe that this is a 'mysterion' that is best left
to itself. We in the West too often tend to judicialise things of the
Faith rather than accept them for the epiphanies that they are. (I say
this having studied with Lutherans in my graduate school days). Like the
Chinese might well benefit from asking not 'how' a modality works but
rather 'what' works and leave it at that. Ascensiontide blessings.
GDVW+
The book is great, and the only
difficulty I really have is what I hear
> others also voicing. Charles helped a lot with his discussion of the
> different meanings of "saved." And Wright+ made the distinction between
> "justification" and "salvation."
>
> I can see "saved" as deriving from being part of the Community, but not
> in the way circumcision made one part of the Community. Neither does
> being a member of the Church as defined in the Offices of Instruction:
> "The Church is the Body of which Jesus Christ is the Head, and ALL
> BAPTIZED PEOPLE are the members." mean "saved" if there is no belief or
> faith.
>
> I like what Mike+ said: "Our obedience to the Law is a natural outgrowth
> of the sanctification process which is our cooperative effort with the
> Holy Spirit after we are already in the kingdom, i.e., our being
> conformed to the image of Christ." This fits with James' statements
> that good works are essential EVIDENCE of our faith. Here that would
> mean that we demonstrate that we are part of the Community by our
> obedience to the Law (of Love), which in turn comes from our belief and
> faith.
>
> Thus being a tag-along in the Community is not quite what Wright+ is
> saying will "save" us. Being believing members of the Community,
> participating sincerely in its life, appropriates for us not only the
> justification which Christ pronounced (the judicial model) on the
> Community but also His salvation.
>
> John+
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