>
> Father: What fun! Please read Padaelion and St Thomas Acquinas.We 300+
priests did not 'leave'. We were tossed-extra canonically and extra
legally (we were not given trials of any kind). And it is a grevous
thing to this day. But what exactly was your point? REC Left-for no real
reason if the truth be known and for that matter ECUSA Left the C of E
and had to be 'greased' in Aberdeen ab initio. And I'll not even go into
the Great Schism! And its fall-out. But more anon. Annunciationtide
blessings. GDVW+
> Fr. Wiebe, I hope you'll not cry "Puritan aggression" when I speak your
> oft-expressed hostility to that mighty turning point of Western
> Civilization, the Reformation.  Till your last e-mail, I as an ignorant
> Reformed Catholic (Protesant, if you please) had thought  the motto of
> Protestantism you cited was "Every man his own PRIEST."  (In fact,  I was
> preparing a  little something on Calvinism and its 20th Century exponent,
> Karl Barth, when I opened your e-mail!)  Really, though, through the cloud
> of words, I see  a "P" written on your forehead, to wit:    Citing
> conscience, inter alia, you relate how you disobeyed, decried, and
> departed
> from  your hierarchial superiors in the Episcopal Church--behavior
> certainly
> not characteristic of an obedient Catholic who would rank the welfare of
> the
> "organized church" above that of his  "fellow-man."  (I seem to remember
> something in Scripture about that.  The late Bishops of Boston and Phoenix
> also come to mind.)   Clearly, at the time, you must have thought PECUSA
> "Catholic," enjoying legitimate apostolic succession, else how could you
> have been part of it?  That so, how could an episcopate endowed with power
> concomitant to such succession possibly err?   Failing patristic
> authority,
> Rome  calls such theological innovation or creativity "received dogma,"
> does it not?  (That's a rhetorical question, Fr. Wiebe.  I've read
> Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre on that score and Rome's counterattack.)
> Perhaps
> you know that Mel Gibson and family are part of the Lefebvre movement,
> claiming to be "Traditionalist Catholics."  Herewith a copy of a letter
> from
> the RC Archbishop of Santa Fe repudiating such movements and succinctly
> describing what  it takes to be really "Catholic!"
>
> Archdiocese of Santa Fe
> THE CATHOLIC CENTER
> 4000 SAINT JOSEPH'S PLACE, N.W.
> ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO 87120-1709
> AREA CODE: 505-831-8100
>
> May 4, 1999
>
> Rev. Joel Garner, O.Praem.
> Our Lady of the Most Holy Rosary
> 5415 Fortuna Road N.W.
> Albuquerque, NM 87105
>
> Dear Father Garner:
>
> You have brought to my attention again the difficulty of the church nearby
> that some people are confusing with the Catholic Church. It is Our Lady of
> the Rosary, 333 58th Street. It is clear that this church is not a
> Catholic
> Church but belongs to the Lefebre movement. No church is considered to be
> a
> truly Catholic Church unless it recognizes the Holy Father as the head of
> the Church and the local bishop appointed by him. Clearly the small church
> mentioned above does not fulfull the requirement to be considered a
> Catholic
> Church. Catholics may not go there to fulfill their Sunday obligation for
> Mass.
>
> There are several other schismatic churches in the area as well. If they
> don't recognize the Pope and Bishop, they are not Catholic and good
> Catholics should clearly not be involved with them in any way.
>
> I hope that this additional clarification helps and that you can inform
> your
> parishioners so that there will be no misunderstanding.
>
> Sincerely yours in the Risen Lord,
>
>
>
> Most Rev. Michael J. Sheehan
> Archbishop of Santa Fe
>
>
> The Protestant churches called Reformed is distinguished from those
> professing Luthran doctines., the theological system of John Calvin, has
> been accepted with varying degrees of modification by most non-Lutheran
> reformed churches. It holds certain doctrines characteristic of
> Lutheranism
> as well as other elements unique to itself. Calvinism shares with
> Lutheranism the doctrine of Scripture as the only rule of faith, of the
> bondage of human free will through sin, and justification by grace through
> faith. Calvinism differs by its more strict use of Scripture as a
> criterion
> of church doctrine and practice., its stress upon predestiantion and
> divine
> omnipotence, and the importance of salvation for the elect. Early
> Callvinism
> differed from Luthranism in its rejection of con-substantiation regarding
> the sacrament of the Lord's Supper, in its doctrine of preddestiantion, in
> its notion of grace as irresistible and in its theocratic view of the
> state.
> Luther believed in the political subordination of the church to the state,
> while Calvinism produced the chaurch-dominated societies of Geneva and
> Puritan New England. Where Lutehr drew a sharp distinction between Law and
> Gospel, Calvin stressed the continuity between the Old Testament and the
> New
> Testament, allowing the Law a continued role as a moral guide for
> believers.
> Whereas the origins of Lutehranism were reural and territorial, Calvinism
> gtraces its origins to highly developed urban communities, a factor
> reflected in the latter's advanced political, economic, and social
> outlooks.
> Although conceding a natural knowledge of God, Calvin insisted that the
> Bible was the most reliable and authoritative source of knowledge of God
> and
> of the moral and religious obligations of Christians. Calvin grounded the
> authority of Scripture partly in its divine inspiration and partly
> subjectively in the "internal testimony of the Holy Spirit," which
> persuades
> believers of its authenticity. The characteristic Calvinist emphasis upon
> the divine omnipotence is expressed in Calvinism, stressing the absolute
> sovereignty of god's will, held that only those whom God specially elects
> are saved, that this election is irresistible, and that individuals can do
> nothing to effect this salvation. This strict Calvinism was challenged in
> the Netherlands, by Jacobus Arminius , whose more moderate views were
> adopted by the Methodists and Baptists. Calvinism challenged Lutheranism
> throughout Europe, spread to Scotland, influence the Puritans of England,
> and in the United States received its expression in the modified Calvinism
> of Jonathan Edwards. Calvinism receded in the 18th and 19th Centuries
> under
> the influence of rationalism, but in the 20th Century the Calvinist stress
> on the sovereignty of god found new vitality in the theology of Carl Barth
>
> CARL BARTH , 1886-1968, Swiss Protestant theologian, one of the leading
> thinkers of 20th Century religious thought, helped found the Confessing
> Church, and his thinking formed the theological framework for the Barmen
> Declaration. He taught in Germany, where early on he opposed the Nazi
> regime. In 1935, when he refused to take the oath of allegiance to Adolph
> Hitler, , he was retired from his position at the University of Bonn and
> deported to Switzerland. There he continued to expound his views, known as
> dialectical theology, or theology of the word. Barth's primary objuect was
> to lead theology back to the principles of the Reformation, called
> neo-orthodoxy. For Barth, modern theology with its assent to science,
> immanent philosophy, and general culture and withits stress on feeling,
> was
> marked by indifference to the word of God and to the revelation of God in
> Jesus, which he thought should be the central concern of theology. In the
> confrontation between humanity and god, which was Bath's fundamental
> concern, the word of god and God's revelation inJesus are the only means
> God
> has for Self-revelation. Barth argued that people must listen in an
> attitude
> of awe, trust, and obedience.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "The Rev GDVWiebe SSC.,PhD" <gdvw@...>
> To: <faithandlife@...>
> Cc: <JADAgency@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 3:36 PM
> Subject: [FaithandLife] Caring for all the Churches (Sort Of)
>
>
>
>>
> ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
> ,,,,,It
>> will be,interesting to see what the final fallout,over +Nova
>> Hamshiriensis is but I suspect Protestantism (everyone his own God just
>> don't rock the boat) will win again.  ...Blessings. GDVW+
>>
>>                                                           proverbial
>
> --
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>



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