> > Brothers+ > No, liturgy is NOT the problem. If you watch the Masses from the Shrine of the Basilica of the Immaculate Conception in Washington DC (and I do this frequently) the Vat 2 Rite (with minor corrections principally an actual offering of the gifts) is perfectly acceptable. The problem with the 'liturgy issue' is that much liturgy today is done by indifferent liturgists who have studied nothing and have been too influenced by the megachurch rot. And of course it shows. When I was an Army chaplain I used the Vatican 2 Rute 2 in the field (it saves time) and had no problems. We need as 'presiders' (if I may use that ohrase w/ qualification) to take this sacred work SERIOUSLY. I think most in the Continuum dobut Ihave seen some liturgical diasters within our ranks as I am sure others have as well. The decline innumbers for ECUSA is because of priestesses. The issue for the Latin Rite is declining population and insufficient numbers in the clergy. Blessings. GDVW+ > > > A group that was studing the documents of VAticanII took flight from the > documents relating to the liturgy and began wondering if liturgical reform > was a cause of declining faithulness at mass by the RC's. > > > > Whatever is the real cause, the statistics below are sobering. > > > > Good Shepherd began a weeknight evening prayer and study hour at a > Retirement Community in Indianapolis. We have people from every regious > background (and none) attending. After we had read the evening prayers in > the 3rd week, a Roman Catholic lady commented that the prayers were like > the ones she had heard in the past. I have heard this several times over > the years. The pre-Vat II RC's feel at home with us. > > > > Charles+ > ----------------------------- > > > > > > > > Sunday mass is the primary means for popular encounter with the Church. > Since the renewal, however, 75% of Catholics stopped attending the Sunday > liturgy. > > > > From “Index of Leading Catholic Indicators” by Ken Jones: > > > > The statistical analysis starts in the 1920s and 1930s, so trends can be > discovered. For example, look at the number of total seminarians. > > There were about 9,000 in 1920, 17,000 in 1940, 25,000 in 1950, almost > 40,000 in 1960, and 49,000 in 1965 - a consistent trend > > upward. In 1970 there were 28,000 seminarians - a decline of over 41 > percent in just five years. In 2002 there were 4,700. This pattern is > reflected in every area - a steady increase until the Council and the new > missal, and a dramatic decline afterwards. > > > > Note I do not suggest the new missal is the problem but poor > implementation of it. The post hoc, ergo propter hoc accusation is > weakened by the sudden nature of the decline in Catholic religious > practice after uninterrupted increase. Still further, Mr. Jones soundly > refutes that argument by > > including a simple chart which shows a marked decline in Church attendance > among Catholics from the 1960s to the present while it > > remained virtually level, with a slight increase, for Protestants. > > > > Thus we cannot simply blame the sixties. Remember there is more to > Protestantism than the mainline denominations. …In all areas of Catholic > life there has been a dramatic decline. In 1965 there were 1.3 million > infant baptisms, in 2002 there were 1 million. (In the same period the > number of Catholics in the United States rose from 45 million to 65 > million!) In 1965 there were 126,000 adult baptisms - converts - in 2002 > there were 80,000. In 1965 there were 352,000 Catholic marriages, in 2002 > there were 256,000. In 1968 there were 338 annulments, in 2002 there were > > 50,000. > > Attendance at Mass has also plummeted. I don’t understand getting exciting > about lay roles when mass attendance has declined while the > > Catholic population increases. A 1958 Gallup poll reported that 74 percent > of Catholics went to Sunday Mass in 1958. A 1994 University > > of Notre Dame study found that the attendance rate was 26.6 percent. > > > > A more recent study by Fordham University professor James Lothian > concluded that 65 percent of Catholics went to Sunday Mass in 1965, while > the rate dropped to 25 percent in 2000. > > Thus there is a problem with the liturgical renewal because people seem to > be voting with their feet. We cannot easily reach those not > > attending the liturgy and an objective evaluation of the problem indicates > the liturgy must have something to do with it thanks to Mr. Jones > statistics. > > > > Ken Jones makes no judgments himself leaving that to the reader. > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today! > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > faithandlife-unsubscribe@... > > ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using FREE Catholic Online Webmail! http://webmail.catholic.org/