Brother+ I apologise for the truncated attempts to reply. ubject: [Interesting Conference Fr. Wiebe+ The year 1969 stands out in my memory. On October 16th I was ordained in the apostolic succession. I had hope in those days that the trend of ECUSA might be reversed and that the Anglican and Roman Catholic leaders would draw their respective communions closer. . Unfortunately, during the last 25 years the Archbishops of Canterbury have had no Ratzinger, and no Curia to stand firm with them on the hard issues. I have posted here a few things from ++Williams that I thought were well done. It is apparent he labors under grave difficulties, and he certainly must be heart sick at the lack of unity in his communion. At the same time, it seems to me he gives the appearance of not being willing to say with St. Augustine, “No, I'm not allowed to let you sleep,”or with Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger that “the Church must also raise her index finger and become irksome. But in all this it must remain perceptible that the Church is not interested in harassing people but that she herself is animated by the restless desire for the good. I must not allow you to sleep, because sleep would be deadly. And in the exercise of this authority she must also take Christ's suffering upon herself.” It may be this lack of firmness and direction that has hastened the decline of the Anglican Communion in the West. If the trumpet gives forth a murky or "opaque" sound, who will go forth to war? The Roman Church seems not to have suffered as severely in spite of the evident problems. It is notable that few married couples honor the teaching of the“Encyclical Humanae Vitae” put forth by Paul VI in 1968. Yet in spite of grumbling about the authoritarian leadership and the antiquated rules, most go on. Charles+ ----------------------------------------------------------- "The Rev GDVWiebe SSC.,PhD" <gdvw@...> wrote:FRATER: This is a piece of potentially positive news that if worked correctly -and built on carefully with a bit of give and take on all sides can bring those of our integrity back to where we were when Archbishop Ramsay and Papa Montini visited in 1969. Certainly Forward in Faith (UK) and the Catholic Societies in England will/must have a central roll to play ,and I hope we can all say our prayers, get out of the way and let them do it. It may well be a time, as I say, for the Continuum in North America to stand aside for a time and wait for a later harvest when as St Julian of Norwich said "....all will be well..." If we entrust this to Our Lady then it will be, for it is her wish surely as it is that of her Divine Son that 'we all be one'. Let us also pray that a good Catholic is made Archbishop of York. This is vital. Blessings. GDVW+ > > --------------------------- > > posted on 25 April 2005 > EXCERPTS FROM THIS AFTERNOON'S (25 APRIL) PRESS CONFERENCE WITH ARCHBISHOP > ROWAN WILLIAMS AND CARDINAL CORMAC MURPHY-O'CONNOR AT THE ENGLISH COLLEGE > IN > ROME FOLLOWING THE VISIT THIS MORNING OF ARCHBISHOP WILLIAMS TO POPE > BENEDICT XVI > > +Rowan > Pope Benedict this morning received myself and my wife; the Archbishop of > the West Indies, who has been very much involved in ecumenical work; > Bishop > Michael Nazir-Ali of Rochester, who has been heavily involved over many > years in the Anglican-Roman Catholic dialogue; and also the new > secretary-general of the Anglican Communion, Canon Kenneth Kieron. It was > a > meeting at which a large number of ecumenical delegates were present, so > it > was not possible to speak in any great depth. But the Pope and myself were > able to exchange a few words, and promised to pray for each other, at his > suggestion, as we moved forward in our ministries. I was very glad to be > able to extend to the new Pope an invitation to England, and to get to > know > the Church of England whenever that is possible, although we are all aware > this will not be the only invitation he will have received in the last 24 > hours or so [laughter]. > > What has encouraged us on this visit is two things. One is that of course > Pope Benedict has gone out of his way to underline his sense of the > priority > of ecumenical work. He has spoken of being servants of unity, and we have > taken that very much to heart as we have listened. But the second theme, > which I think came through very clearly in the magnificent homily he > preached at the inaugural Mass was a theme of united Christian witness, a > witness to the fact that - as he said in that homily - "the Gospel does > not > ask us to become less than human but more deeply human". And to pick up > the > image which he used yesterday, it is outside the realm of faith that we > are, > as it were, fish out of water. Within the realm of faith we are freely and > happily what we were made to be. Now that, I think all the ecumenical > guests > will have taken heart from as an invitation to join in what we hope will > be > an effective, a transformative witness - spiritual and social - in Europe. > > So those have given us great hope. We have already, of course, on the > table > a number of continuing pieces of work shared between the Roman Catholic > and > the Anglican Churches. Very shortly the agreed Anglican-Roman Catholic > statement on Mary will appear, and the work continues on the common > declaration about pastoral work which the International Anglican-Roman > Catholic Commission on Unity and Mission [IARCCUM] is pursuing. So these > are > pieces of work which are ongoing. The commitment of the Roman Catholic > Church has been expressed many times to us in recent months and days to a > continuance of the work already begun and we look forward with hope and > with > sympathetic interest to how this very fruitful dialogue, which has gone on > for so many decades, is to be pursued. > > Not for the first time in visits to Rome I have with me the ring presented > by Pope Paul VI to my predecessor Archbishop Michael Ramsey. And I'm > wearing > the pectoral cross presented on my own inauguration as Archbishop of > Canterbury by Pope John Paul II. These signs are not just empty tokens; > they > express that unity in the Body of Christ and that unity of witness which > we > seek to further. And this morning I was able to present the Holy Father > with > a pectoral cross, specially designed as a gift for him, incorporating in > itself the historic Cross of Canterbury. Thank you very much. > > +Cormac > May I begin by saying something very simple, but I feel it very much, > namely > that it has been a joy and a delight for me as a former rector of the > English College and a student here to be able to welcome Archbishop Rowan > to > stay here, as he has done both for the funeral of Pope John Paul and the > inauguration of Pope Benedict. This college, as you may know, before it > was > a seminary was a hospice for English pilgrims - it is, in fact, the oldest > English institution outside of England. So there's a sense in which our > friendship in the Lord means that friendship and hospitality is taken for > granted now in a way that I don't think was the case 50 years ago. So I'm > really very pleased about that. One of my favourite passages from the > Second > Vatican Council document on ecumenism is the passage where it says "there > is > no ecumenism worthy of the name without interior conversion, newness of > attitudes, and unstinted love." And you know, Pope Benedict has said that > he's > going to continue to develop our understanding of the Second Vatican > Council > which is key to the direction of the Church, and one of the key documents > is > the document on ecumenism. So there's no going back. Pope Benedict has > given > this his own imprimatur, when he made a wonderful plea in his homily to > the > Lord: "Don't go back on your promise. We want to be servants of unity." > And > that's what I know he will be during his Petrine ministry. > > So all I want to say is that I'm delighted to be here with the Archbishop. > I > think that the road may be a long one, but someone once said to me that as > much as doctrinal matters have divided us, the most difficult one has been > separation for 400 years. It's the coming together, not just in doctrine, > but the coming together in prayer, in life, in understanding, in common > witness - this is what is happening more and more. And I think that the > example that we could give in England and Wales, where the break occurred, > what we do is extremely important, and Pope Benedict is aware of the > importance of England and Wales in the ecumenical endeavour. He has taken > a > keen interest in the conversations of ARCIC and therefore I think that > while > the way forward still has its difficulties I'm full of hope. Pope Benedict > will bless our endeavours and forward our dialogue in every way that's > open > to him. > > Excerpts from press conference. > > +Rowan > I see that there are three phases in the life of the man who is now Pope > Benedict. As a theologian, originally in Germany, he wrote some > extraordinarily positive and abidingly fruitful things about the nature of > the Church and the nature of the Christian faith. Some of the semi-popular > writing he did in the 1970s, especially, I still find extraordinarily > fertile . The second phase is one in which he is charged professionally in > his work here at the Vatican with doctrinal precision. And he has > constantly > struggled, in ways in which of course people have found problematic at > times, for clarity of definition . He is now being asked to undertake a > third task. How he will perform that we do not know, but he has given > signals of a real willingness to take it forward in fellowship with others > in the light of the late Pope's Ut Unum Sint, drawing others into the > conversation about how the Petrine ministry is to be exercised. It seems > to > me that the events of recent weeks, the death and the funeral of John Paul > II and the events around the inauguration of this weekend, have shown a > kind > of foretaste of a worldwide fellowship of people gathered for worship in a > way that has somehow gone around the difficulties of doctrinal definition. > It is as if we have been given a glimpse of other levels of unity and my > own > feeling is that is the level at which he will seek to work. That is > certainly my prayer . > > I do feel that of course at the beginning of any new papacy it's a new > start, a threshold, but also I would say this comes at a very significant > time for the Anglican Communion. We are struggling as a Communion to find > a > sustainable, robust doctrine of the Church that will help us deal with the > many difficulties we have faced in recent years. We have in the ARCIC > documents a very considerable legacy of material which ought to help us in > that. I hope that the next phase of our dialogue will assist us in that > exercise. That is why I feel positive. > > Some of the most important ecumenical advances these days happen in the > context of praying communities, religious communities and others. I had a > very warm welcome last night from the Community of Sant'Egidio here in > Rome, > and the Anglican Communion already has very warm relations with the > Sant'Egidio > people. I would like to see steps taken to consolidate and further that. > And > also we in England - and the Cardinal knows this - we have had some visits > from Benedictine monks in Vallechiara who have established some relations > with both Anglican and Catholic churches in London . It's there, I would > say, rather than in horsetrading about definitions, that the growth points > are. > > +Cormac > I think there are concrete ways in which we witness together. I was quite > moved on Good Friday walking down from Westminster Abbey to Westminster > Cathedral with Anglican and Free Church friends, a common witness to our > belief in Jesus Christ and the redemption he achieved by means of the > Cross. > Those small things are not insignificant. . I think this Pope will be > listening very carefully to what the leaders of our Churches are telling > him > in response to the plea by Pope John Paul II in Ut Unum Sint for advice on > how the Petrine ministry can better serve church unity . We shall see what > happens in the months and years ahead. > > +Rowan > What we have seen very interestingly and very impressively in recent weeks > is the visibility of the religious faith of a lot of very ordinary people. > The intensive, saturated press coverage of events in Rome has given a lot > of > very ordinary people the chance to talk to camera about their faith and > that > has not been a specifically Roman Catholic phenomenon. It has been > something > about Christian faith, faith in the symbolic force of the Pope's suffering > and death, faith in the Resurrection because all this happened during the > Easter season not, I think, by accident . > > Yesterday and today I have sensed a real willingness [on the part of Pope > Benedict] to draw others into . an encounter with secularism as a > philosophy. All Christians would agree that secularism as a comprehensive > philosophy is not something that we can sit easily with. We have to work > out > a proper distance between Church and State and the liberty of Churches to > state their case and unfold their vision in the public sphere. I know that > there is a great concern of [Pope Benedict's] as well as a concern of his > colleagues, and it is an area where I feel we have a great partnership. > > I think there can be a drift towards so unquestioned an assumption that > secularism is what every sensible person thinks that it can feel like a > real > pushing of the Gospel to the margins. And I think that that unthinking > drift > is around in many bits of European culture, and it's where a genuinely > deep, > intellectually vital, spiritually sustaining vision is more than ever > necessary. > > +Cormac > I think there is a discussion in Europe today, of which Pope Benedict is > well aware, of what kind of secularism is it in Europe. Some cardinals > would > think it was an aggressive secularism, that is to say, an anti-religious > secularism. There are those who wouldn't agree with that assessment and > would say that the secularism of today is something Christianity can swim > in > and can do so with all the force of its faith, and wouldn't accept that > it's > aggressive. I think it's a fair discussion, because it's quite hard to > analyse the secularism in Europe; it's different in different countries . > And that calls for a different response from the Church. Should it be, not > just the city on the hill, fighting, but the leaven in the mass, > permeating, > as something that animates it with what is good and fresh. That's a very > interesting debate .. Christianity needs to be both, but it's question of > emphasis . > > +Rowan > Structurally and publicly, I don't think [Britain] has an aggressive form > of > secularism. My worry is more with a general trend or drift in public > discourse which, by assuming that Christianity is intellectually > contemptible or oppressive, limits our possibilities . We reply to it not > with anything like an aggressive strategy but with a constant, stubborn, > reasoned presentation of the vision in the public square as far as we can. > > +Cormac > In a way, the challenge in Britain is for Christians, and especially > Christian leaders, is to be more upfront in facing questions that concern > life and meaning and hope. . We would both believe that what needs to be > said needs to be said because they are true, not just true for Christians. > > +Rowan > When I wrote a few weeks ago an open letter to the party political leaders > I > had a certain amount of correspondence as a result. One letter said very > angrily: "Britain is not Iran. It's no place of religious leaders to go > dictating what people think" .. It's as if in some people's eyes any > attempt > to state a Christian perspective in public is ipso facto dictatorial. I > think that's nonsense. > > +Cormac > One of the good things that's happened lately, in the context of the > election, is that Christian leaders have been able to say things that have > had a political impact. And when people say you shouldn't interfere with > politics we say it's a perfectly legitimate thing to say, it's not party > political . I think more of it would be good. > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > faithandlife-unsubscribe@... > > ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using FREE Catholic Online Webmail! http://webmail.catholic.org/ -- To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: faithandlife-unsubscribe@... -- To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: faithandlife-unsubscribe@...