Mark+

Well said!!  And I suppose in a lot of ways we're all Pelagian on one level
or another.  About 3/4 of my sermons deal with "obedience to the Gospel."
There ya go.

MLW+

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Clavier+ [mailto:anglican@...] 
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:19 AM
To: faithandlife@...
Subject: Re: FW: [FaithandLife] the meaning of the new birth

Mike+,

I think one of the wiset comments about this issue was made by ole Wm Laud 
who called the whole matter "unmasterable."

I think what makes it all so mysterious is that we keep placing God within 
time.  As we can't imagine how election, salvation, perserverence, etc. look

like from outside time, we can't begin to get God's perspective on the 
matter.

Also, it reflects a preoccupation with salvation (which almost always 
becomes self-serving) rather than what we're to do as redeemed, baptized 
human beings.  A question I love to put to people is this: "If we can't be 
saved by good works, can we be damned by bad ones?"

Speaking of Palagianism...have you ever noticed how Pelagian most Sunday 
School material is?  I was thumbing through children's bibles and curricula 
the other day.  Almost every story is boiled down to lesson about how one 
ought to obey.  The assumption throughout is that if the children try (ie 
exert their will) they can be honest, kind, loving, etc, etc.  We learn to 
follow the old Brit early on, don't we?

Mark+ 

--
To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: faithandlife-unsubscribe@...