[faithandlife] Re: [FaithandLife] DIVORCE QUESTION Mattthew 5:32, 19:6 link to Deut 22:13-21

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From: <gdvw@...>
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 23:47:31 -0000 (UTC)
Charles: I think your close to the mark. The institution of marriage in
the 1st century in the Holy Land was a mess with competing ideologies
(Roman ideas/rules for example). Our Lord never worked in a vacuum.
Blessings. GDVW+                                                          
                                                                    From:
"Wayne McNamara" <Wayne.McNamara@...>
>>Reply-To: <Wayne.McNamara@...>
>>To: <faithandlife@...>
>>Subject: [FaithandLife] Mattthew 5:32, 19:6 link to Deut 22:13-21 Date:
>> Tue, 19 Nov 2002 12:47:18 -0800
>>
>>Just looking for a little insight from some of you seasoned men.
>>
>>Could Deuteronomy 22:13-21 be (at least in part) what Jesus is talking
>> about in Matthew 5:32 and 19:6.  Can we translate "except the marriage
>> itself be fornication or unlawful?" Is this a proper translation? Can
>> you Greek wizzes help me here?
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>Wayne+
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> Fr. Wayne+
>
> Over 40 years have passed since I sat in the class room and worked on
> Greek.
>   I certainly am no wizard, but I will have a go at it.
>
> The underlying question is what did Jesus say about divorce and
> illegitimate  marriage?  Some scholars hold that Mark 10:4-12 best
> reflects Jesus’ sayings  on the subject.  If that is the case, the
> Rabbinical exception, “for the  cause of unchastity”, is a moot point.
> Some scholars think that the exception clause was added to the saying by
>  Matthew as an accommodation due to the “hardness of hearts” in his
> Christian  congregation, just as the rabbinical exceptions Jesus
> referred to were an  accommodation to the Jewish community, but not the
> will of God for marriage.
>
> If however, Matt. 5:32 is also a saying of Jesus, and he does include
> the  unchastity exception, then the conclusion that Jesus is referring
> to  Deuteronomy 22 as well as Deuteronomy 24 is on point.  The New
> American  Bible for Catholics is sympathetic to you as they translate
> thusly: “But I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the
> marriage is  unlawful) causes her to commit adultery, and whoever
> marries a divorced  woman commits adultery.”
>
> I personally don’t think that is a legitimate translation. I think it
> and  yours is a commentary, an interpretation.  The interpretation may
> be a  correct way of understanding the “unchastity exception”, but it is
> not a  translation of the words.
>
> Below are a couple of versions of the Greek Text, and what I think is a
> reasonable translation of the words, by the New American Standard
> Version.
>
> It should be noted that there is strong agreement between the various
> Greek  texts as to the content of Mat 5:32.  logou porneiav can be
> translated as  the rule, word, thought, law, or morale mandate of what
> constitutes, illicit  intercourse, incest (Leviticus 18), or marriage to
> a divorced person (Mark  10).
>
> I don’t think it legitimate to say   logou porneiav says that the
> marriage  question to which Jesus is responding, is that of  incest or
> illicit  marriage for other reason as described in Deuteronomy.   The
> question that  the Pharisees put to Jesus is, can a man divorce a woman
> for every cause? I  think it clear that the saying in Matthew 5:32 is
> the exception to the  prohibition against divorce is illicit sexual
> behaviour.   The tense is  present.  The marriage has been in existence,
> the unchastity occurs after  marriage and is an exception to the divorce
> prohibition.  Otherwise, if a  man merely tires of a wife and divorces
> her, he has put her in the position  of being an adultress when she
> remarries.  However, if there has been  illicit laisons with men, women
> or beasts, then the covenant of marriage has  been broken, and the man
> is free.  That is not what the Deuteronomy passage  contemplates, but it
> may have reflected challenges to marriage in Matthew’s  day.
>
> I think the Leviticus passage and the Deuteronomy 22 passage points to a
>  betrothal situation, rather than a marriage that has existed for some
> time.   In Deuteronomy 22, the marriage could not be legally consummated
> because of  incest, previous, marriage, or other irregular union that
> made a covenanted  marriage impossible.  As in the case of Mary and
> Joseph, pregnancy during  the period of betrothal was good cause for
> putting away an espoused wife.   Obviously, if a young woman became
> pregnant by one man while betrothed to  another, there was no basis for
> a covenanted marriage.
>
> If Jesus words on the subject were only those recorded in Mark 10, then
> the  “grounds for divorce” as practiced in America are slim indeed.  But
> even if  the expanded saying in Matthew 5:32 does accurately reflect
> Jesus’ saying,  and he does include the rabbinical exception, how many
> American divorces  occur because it was discovered on the wedding night
> that there had been  incest or other illicit activity that made a
> covenanted marriage impossible?
>
> The reaction by the disciples to the words of Jesus makes it clear that
> they  understood his standard was very high (possibly no exceptions),
> because they  say, “It were better for a man not to marry.”  The
> covenanted relationship  was to be until death, giving each partner
> ample opportunity to forgive one  another their trespasses as they
> themselves asked forgiveness.
>
> Thus, while I don’t think the translation you suggest, or that the New
> American Bible puts forth is a real translation, it probably does
> reflect  the stringency of Jesus teaching on marriage and divorce but
> does not seem  to be the answer Jesus was giving to the Pharisees
> question.
>
> Was that confusing enough?
>
>
> Charles
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 5:32 [Greek Font Size: -/+] [View in: BYZ/TR]
> but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the
> reason  of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever * marries
> a divorced  woman commits adultery.
> egw de legw (5719) umin oti pav o apoluwn (5723) thn gunaika autou
> parektov  logou porneiav poiei (5719) authn moixeuqhnai, (5683) kai ov
> ean
> apolelumenhn (5772) gamhsh| (5661) moixatai.
>
> Matthew 5:32 [Greek Font Size: -/+] [View in: BYZ/NA26]   (Byzantine
> text  1991) but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except
> for the  reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever *
> marries a  divorced woman commits adultery.
> egw de legw umin oti ov an apolush| thn gunaika autou parektov logou
> porneiav poiei authn moicasyai kai ov ean apolelumenhn gamhsh| moixatai
>
> Matthew 19:9 [Greek Font Size: -/+] [View in: TR/NA26]
> "And I say to you, whoever * divorces his wife, except for immorality,
> and  marries another woman commits adultery."
> legw de umin oti ov an apolush| thn gunaika autou Mh epi porneia| kai
> gamhsh| allhn moixatai kai o apolelumenhn gamhsav moixatai
>
>
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