Read almost any forum concerned with troubleshooting software or operating systems and you'll see bursts of annoyance by the moderators or frequent contributors when the person asking seems to stubbornly ignore all or portions of the proposed solution, or seems to refuse to read material already available within the forum and even posted as a **Read Me First**. Sometimes that is the sign that the seeker of help is badly embedded in a conceptual rut about how things work and the answer is not within that rut. Their failure is a failure to step back and look at the problem from 1000 feet instead of 10, but it can be very difficult to get them to do so. Sometimes apparent stubbornness is a sign that although the seeker of help can read, he/she doesn't comprehend the written word well. I know several quite intelligent people who can comprehend verbal instructions every time, but will miss the point if the instructions are written down. I also know several who are just the opposite, but you only see the first type on a forum. Often, the problem is that the help seeker is doing an appallingly poor job of explaining what they want to know, so the helpers are shooting at the wrong problem. Some folks who are otherwise quite creative are nonetheless very bad at describing what they are doing. We've all had teachers like that. Some questioners annoy because they don't seem to have given the problem they want solved any thought themselves - they're on the air at the first hitch wanting instant gratification from someone else - preferably without work on their part. As a retired engineering prof with nearly 40 years experience teaching courses and running tutorials and labs for tough subjects, I've seen them all, been annoyed by many, and have occasionally expressed that annoyance. But one thing is certain - there's always a bowerbird in every crowd, and that role can and will shift from one individual to another from time to time. We've all been there, done that, and own the T-shirt. Adam At 11:13 AM -0400 10/10/04, tedd wrote, in part: > >In any event, repetition rate without significant improvement, or at >least apparent compliance to suggestions, does promote annoyance. >tedd