Since both IM and FB manuals say you can't put an ARC shape in a region, does anyone know (Mars perhaps?) any way of getting around that or any clever (fast) way of detecting a click on an ARC segment? (preferably just the space between the Arc perimeter and its chord). I was thinking that I could do a good approximation if I knew how to mimic the ARC function as a series of MOVETO, LINETOs - make that into a region and presto but all I can remember from my school geometry is x*x+y*y=r*r but that's for a circle, not an oval - And I still a long way off from producing a replica of the FRAMEARC function. Any help would be appreciated (like what's the formula for an oval?) - I'll post back any finished routine (for everyone's delight) to Bill's website. Andy