What's that go to do with the price of tea?
-----Original Message-----
From: Derick Dickens [mailto:Derick@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 4:15 PM
To: pastorsforum@...
Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Even quotes from ______________
David,
So, do you have an organ in your church?
Derick
------------------------------------
Wallers Baptist Church
Pastor
derick@...
PO Box 95
Partlow VA 22534
tel: 540-582-5703
mobile: 540-894-1772
www.thedickensfamily.org
------------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pastor David Warner [mailto:dwarner@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 3:16 PM
> To: pastorsforum@...
> Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Even quotes from ______________
>
>
>
> Amen!!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Derick Dickens [mailto:Derick@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 1:59 PM
> To: pastorsforum@...
> Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Even quotes from ______________
>
>
> Here is a quote from the Metropolitan Tabernacle in their
> article on CCM which supports that CHS would never want an
> organ in the sanctuary.
>
> "C H Spurgeon would never have an organ at the Metropolitan
> Tabernacle in his day, because he saw how so many of the
> larger churches had become carried away by the sound of their
> magnificent instruments, and the expert capabilities of their
> organists. They were tickling the ears of the people (as
> Spurgeon put it) with beautiful musical items other than
> hymns. He was concerned that people would go to church to be
> entertained rather than to worship, but even more seriously,
> he saw how the skill and beauty of the music was itself
> likely to be regarded as an act of worship, and an offering
> to God. Today the Tabernacle uses an organ, but we endeavour
> to keep its deployment within bounds, so that it provides an
> accompaniment only, and does not become a medium of worship.
> We would never say, for example, that the organ 'enriches'
> worship. It disciplines the singing, and teaches and
> maintains the tune, but we know very well that in spiritual
> terms it can contribute nothing."
>
> ------------------------------------
> Wallers Baptist Church
> Pastor
> derick@...
> PO Box 95
> Partlow VA 22534
> tel: 540-582-5703
> mobile: 540-894-1772
> www.thedickensfamily.org
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Derick Dickens [mailto:Derick@...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 1:50 PM
> > To: pastorsforum@...
> > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Even quotes from ______________
> >
> >
> > David,
> >
> > You call something a lie, but I contend you are wrong. The entire
> > regulative principles of a few hundred years ago was being
> questioned
> > and thought through. Some people believed that a
> non-psalter was okay
> > and were condemned. Soli Deo Gloria has a great book they produced
> > about the Worship of the English Puritans. Great little
> book that was
> > based upon the author's dissertation into primary source documents.
> > This book has been peer reviewed and is considered a modern
> > classic. I highly recommend it. Therefore, your premise
> > below is wrong... There is worship today that the Puritans
> > would have strongly condemned.
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> > Wallers Baptist Church
> > Pastor
> > derick@...
> > PO Box 95
> > Partlow VA 22534
> > tel: 540-582-5703
> > mobile: 540-894-1772
> > www.thedickensfamily.org
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Pastor David Warner [mailto:dwarner@...]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 10:48 AM
> > > To: pastorsforum@...
> > > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Even quotes from ______________
> > >
> > >
> > > Dale,
> > > The old lie that "we are using music in the church today that was
> > > condemned 200 years ago and we have suffered no harm,
> therefore, no
> > > harm can come from any type of music we bring into the
> church today"
> > > has been repeated so often that many sincere evangelicals
> and even
> > > fundamentalists have bought in to it. Regardless of how
> many times
> > > it is repeated; regardless of how some well known personalities
> > > repeat it; regardless of how many "scholarly ministers of music"
> > > repeat it; regardless of how many times it appears in book, the
> > > purpose driving acceptance and promotion of this is not
> > > holiness of hellishness. It's fleshly. It appeals to the
> > > flesh, the carnal minds and the babes in Christ. The ungodly
> > > like it because it makes them feel good to have the same
> > > thing they have been feeding on. Instead of fine dining, too
> > > many are serving slop. But Dale, the subject was changed from
> > > my original posts. I was asking some very basic questions
> > > concerning music to see if there was validity in what some of
> > > these guy, both ancient and modern, believed about music. I
> > > wasn't taking a position and didn't do that until yesterday I
> > > believe in response to an attack on me for something I hadn't
> > > said. It's not that I don't have a position. I was wanting
> > > to see if there was any reason, logic, or most importantly,
> > > Scripture, to say my position needed some tweaking. None has
> > > been forthcoming to date. I've had snide remarks, I've had
> > > defense of CCM, I've had lots of blah, blah, blah, but no
> > > answer to my question. No one has dealt with the statements
> > > these guys I quoted made. One in particular simply took a
> > > position of assuming and brought into the posts many
> > > different questions. In fact, he rejected my question (I
> > > suspect because he didn't want to answer it) and came up with
> > > a different question. What you have said about music being as
> > > you stated in different time periods may have been true in
> > > some churches. You're not saying it was always that way in
> > > every church, are you? If I ask a question, please tell me
> > > how I am to prove Biblically the asking of the question. If
> > > I give an answer, then it ought to be a Biblical answer, but
> > > a question? Dale, you may say that issues like this can't be
> > > proven Biblically to your satisfaction but you cannot say
> > > they cannot be proven Biblically. They can, they have, and
> > > they will continue to be proven Biblically for many who have
> > > eyes to see and ears to hear. While many preachers today
> > > seem to be confused as to what worldliness is, unsaved,
> > > ungodly, worldly people seem to know very well what it is.
> > > How is it that they are able to do that. I suspect it is
> > > because they do not care and therefore don't have any need to
> > > deny what is apparent to the honest mind. Your "well
> > > Spurgeon smoked a pipe" is a smoke screen. If we are going to
> > > deal with music, let's stick with music. This is what those
> > > do who attack the KJV and those who believe it is God's
> > > preserved word for the English speaking world. They want to
> > > talk about King James and his life and the paper that was
> > > used and whether the ink the translators used was pure or
> > > that it came from the same batch of ink that was also used to
> > > write some heresy and therefore the KJV is tainted. I say,
> > > stick with the manuscripts and here, stick with the music.
> > > Dale, go back and re-read my post. The 3.2 beer was an
> > > ILLUSTRATION and not a accusation or suggestion that some
> > > actually did that. The point was, you don't give a little of
> > > the bad in order to "reach" those who are use worse. Just
> > > read my posts to know what I am saying. You can't read what
> > > others make up about what I posted and then ask me to defend
> > > what they said I said. BTW, there were a couple of posts, one
> > > from Fidel and one from Jeff, that seemed to get exactly what
> > > I was saying. In fact, they seemed to be blessed by what
> > > Spurgeon wrote over 100 years ago. I know I was blessed and
> > > challenged when I read it. It is was true then, unless
> > > things have gotten so much better since then, it must be true
> > > now and even more appropriate. Dale, I do appreciate your
> > > sincere interest in knowing the truth and what is right and
> > > wrong. May God guide each of us in our search for His
> > > perfect will and may all we do, and say, and even think bring
> > > glory and honor unto Him.
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > >
> > > .
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Dale Gooding [mailto:prosperityfbc@...]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 6:36 AM
> > > To: pastorsforum@...
> > > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Even quotes from ______________
> > >
> > >
> > > DW,
> > > As much as I agree with the potential harm some music can
> do in the
> > > church, you haven't proved your point you have only used
> conjecture.
> > > Yes, Spurgeon was right but you may very well listen to
> some music
> > > today that he condemned then. If you go back as far as
> Plato I am
> > > more confident that you do. The music played in churches
> today was
> > > condemned 200 years ago. There was also a time when
> anything other
> > > than the Psalms was considered worldly. Then there was a period
> > > when only men could sing. Then there was a time when only the
> > > chosen could sing. I am not saying you are right or wrong. I
> > > only ask that you prove your point Biblically. Issues like
> > > this can't be proven by broad statements like "worldliness".
> > > Much of what we do today would be considered worldly by
> > > Spurgeon. I am confident you wouldn't smoke a pipe but I
> > > believe it was Spurgeon who did and only stopped because he
> > > saw a billboard promoting the type of tobacco he smoked and
> > > he stopped because he refused to be known by anything other
> > > than the gospel that he preached. Many would insist that
> > > music is an "extra-biblical" issue. I am not sure that it is
> > > but please prove your point don't just postulate about it.
> > > You seem to take things farther than anyone on the forum
> > > would by suggesting they would use such things as 3.2 beer.
> > > That infers that David P. would do such a thing and he has
> > > not said such. Please brother, just prove your point with the
> > > Bible using Biblical references concerning music not "the
> > > broad way" or "worldliness" which could apply to almost
> > > anything anyone wanted to use it for to prove their point.
> > > Again, I am not saying you are wrong just prove the point!
> > >
> > > DG
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Pastor David Warner [mailto:dwarner@...]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 12:13 AM
> > > To: pastorsforum@...
> > > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Even quotes from ______________
> > >
> > >
> > > But Ray, the problem is that the message has changed. It's not
> > > about associating with sinners. Every gospel preacher worth his
> > > salt does that.
> > > It's about becoming like them in order to win them. Jesus
> > never did
> > > that.
> > > Your analogy of the Pharisees' accusation against Jesus
> was not what
> > > the post was all about. The was about becoming like the world.
> > > Jesus never became like the world to reach the sinner. He
> came into
> > > the world to save sinners from the world. He said, if
> any man love
> > > the world the love of the Father is not in him. You
> don't give 3.2%
> > > beer to a alcoholic in order to win him to Christ. You
> give him the
> > > gospel. You don't say, "let's go have a few drinks while I
> > > tell you about Jesus. You tell him to turn to God from idols
> > > and start serving the living the Lord. So, to answer your
> > > question, be like Jesus. He came into the world to save
> > > sinners. He didn't tell them to change their words but keep
> > > their old life-style. He said, "Ye must be born again." The
> > > Bible say a saved person is a new creature in Christ Jesus.
> > > Surely every gospel would say that a new creature ought to
> > > act like it. David
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ray Hurst [mailto:rhurst@...]
> > > Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 11:58 PM
> > > To: pastorsforum@...
> > > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Even quotes from ______________
> > >
> > >
> > > This sounds like something the Pharisees accused Jesus
> about. Jesus
> > > spent time with sinners and how could He do that, it's not
> > > scriptural.
> > >
> > > We could not reach God, so Jesus came to us.
> > > The sinners were not allowed near the Pharisee's & Sadducee's, so
> > > Jesus went to them. Jesus touched the leper, sick and the
> outcast,
> > > ALL against the righteous laws of the day.
> > >
> > > Hmnn who should I be like, traditionalist or Jesus?
> > >
> > > We can change the method but not the message.
> > >
> > > Ray
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Pastor David Warner wrote:
> > >
> > > >This is the suggestion of the present hour: if the
> > > >world will not come to Jesus...shall not the church go
> down to the
> > > >world? Instead of bidding men to be converted, to come out from
> > > >among sinners and be separate from them, let us join with the
> > > >ungodly world, enter into union with it, and so pervade it
> > > >with our influence by allowing it to influence us.
> > > >Let us have a Christian world...
> > > >
> > > >Certain ministers...are treacherously betraying our
> > > >holy religion under pretense of adapting it to this
> present age.
> > > >The new plan is to assimilate the church into the world. By
> > > >semi-dramatic performance they make houses of prayer to
> approximate
> > > >theater; they turn their services into musical
> displays...In fact,
> > > >they exchange the temple for the theater, and turn the
> > > ministers of God
> > >
> > > >into actors, whose business it is to amuse men... This,
> > then, is the
> > > >proposal. In order to win the world, the Lord Jesus
> must conform
> > > >Himself, His people, and His Word to the world. I will not
> > > dwell on so
> > > >loathsome a proposal.
> > > >
> > > >My dear hearers, how much I long to see you saved!
> > > >But I would not belie my Lord, even to win your souls,
> > > >if they could be so won. The true servant of God is
> > > >not responsible for success or non-success. Results
> > > >are in God's hands.
> > > >***************************
> > > >
> > > >Ready for this-
> > > >
> > > >This was preached in 1888
> > > >
> > > >The title was No Compromise by none other than-
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Charles H. Spurgeon
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >To unsubscribe, send ANY message to:
> > > >pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
> > > >
> > > >"In essential things, unity; in non-essential things,
> > > liberty; and in
> > > >all
> > > things, charity."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to:
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> > >
> > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things,
> liberty; and
> > > in all things, charity."
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to:
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> > >
> > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things,
> liberty; and
> > > in all things, charity."
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to:
> > > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
> > >
> > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things,
> liberty; and
> > > in all things, charity."
> > >
> > > --
> > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to:
> > > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
> > >
> > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things,
> liberty; and
> > > in all things, charity."
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to:
> > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
> >
> > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things,
> liberty; and in
> > all things, charity."
> >
> >
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, send ANY message to:
> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>
> "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things,
> liberty; and in all things, charity."
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, send ANY message to:
> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>
> "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things,
> liberty; and in all things, charity."
>
>
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To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
"In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in all
things, charity."