Guys I would ask that you do a study on grapes and winemaking to better
understand the yeast or leaven as the Bible calls it.  The grape skin has a
naturally occurring yeast on it.  When the grapes are crushed this yeast
enters into the juice and causes it to ferment.  Fermentation is the process
of the yeast digestion of the sugars in the juice which in the end produces
alcohol.  When the yeast has eaten all the sugar it dies.  Therefore there
is no more yeast.  Therefore fully fermented wine has no yeast in it.

I am not a proponent of alcohol consumption at all, it fact I hate the
stuff.  I have personally known what it lead to and there is nothing good
that ever comes of drinking alcohol.  Yet the Bible does not forbid it.  It
does condemn drunkenness.

Mike Cantrell



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven G. Rockhill" <revrock@...>
To: <pastorsforum@...>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] THE WINE ISSUE


> DW,
>    As for the yeast bread - the idea I was going on was the rationale
> that some folks think that because wine has fermented it is evil - so
> wouldn't we have to say the same about yeast bread - it is evil because
> it has fermented?  If we can drink 'wine' that is not fermented but not
> 'wine' that is fermented - shouldn't we also eat bread before it rises.
>   Let's at least be consistent.  Fermented wine is not evil - but people
> who abuse it have evilness in their hearts.  Fermented yeast bread is
> not evil - but people who abuse it (gluttons) have evilness in their
hearts.
>    Also - wine is either wine or it is not.  Grape juice is not wine, it
> is grape juice.
>
> Peace,
> Steve
>
> Pastor David Warner wrote:
>
> > Uhhh, Steve.  Could it be that the caution of drinking wine in excess is
> > because unfermented wine could ferment and...whalla...cause drunkenness?
> > I have never before heard anyone put forth the idea that one could get
drunk
> > on yeast bread because yeast ferments.  But I guess that not eating
> > fermented bread would also be in order.  Or are you saying that
fermented
> > bread would be moldy bread.  Has anyone ever preached that we ought to
have
> > a little moldy bread for the stomach sake?
> > I agree, Steve, we do have to consider where our logic would take us.
Human
> > logic apart from Scripture can very well lead to faulty conclusions.  I
had
> > a woman come to talk with me along with her husband for marital
counseling.
> > During the course of the meeting she said she had committed adultery.
But,
> > she said, it was all right because God told her she could.  While she
was
> > considering whether to have sex with this man (she had only been married
> > about a month or so and this was about a year since her marriage and had
not
> > had sex with her husband at that point), she prayed about it and asked
God
> > if it was right for her to do so and He told her to go ahead as it was
the
> > right thing to do.  God wanted her to be happy and this was part of His
plan
> > for her to have the abundant life.  She had Scripture for her
behavior!!!
> > Can you believe that people will find Scripture to support what they
want to
> > do even when the ungodly, unsaved, and unbelieving know it is wrong?
These
> > exegetical (or isogetical)  gymnastics are truly amazing.
> >
> > David Warner
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Steven G. Rockhill [mailto:revrock@...]
> > Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 10:33 AM
> > To: pastorsforum@...
> > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] THE WINE ISSUE
> >
> >
> > Jimbo,
> >    Your last couple of posts have done an excellent job of pointing out
> > the exegetical (or isogetical) gymnastics that are necessary to conclude
> > that the use of wine is totally forbidden in Scripture.  If the word
> > 'wine' in Scripture actually refers to unfermented grape juice then why
> > all the prohibitions against becoming drunk on wine.  If there is no
> > 'kick' in the grape juice could drinking it in excess make one drunk.  I
> > don't think so.  They could get sick - but there is more to drunkenness
> > than just getting sick.  Also, if fermentation is 'corrupt and evil' and
> > we know Jesus would have never promoted anything corrupt or evil, let
> > alone drink it himself - then couldn't we also by the same faulty logic
> > conclude that Jesus never ate leavened bread made with yeast (which
> > ferments) and that whenever we see the word 'bread' in Scripture it
> > refers to unleavened bread.  We have to consider where our logic would
> > take us.
> >
> > Peace,
> > Steve
> >
> >
>
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