David, I just sent through a chart explaining Dispensationalism in comparison to CT, NCT and now PD... I would say that no church father would have held to the strong Dispensational aspects of that system. Derick ------------------------------------ Wallers Baptist Church Pastor derick@... PO Box 95 Partlow VA 22534 tel: 540-582-5703 mobile: 540-894-1772 www.thedickensfamily.org ------------------------------------ > -----Original Message----- > From: Pastor David Warner [mailto:dwarner@...] > Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 4:05 PM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Dispensationalism > > > This was not the complete article. I was just wonder on this > much of it fit the 150 history Derick gave. I should have > included the link so here it is. > > http://www.biblebelievers.com/BlueDISP.html > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven G. Rockhill [mailto:revrock@...] > Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 3:48 PM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Dispensationalism > > > This seems to be forcing the framework of dispensationalism > on the early church fathers. Just because they viewed history > in blocks based on prominent individuals does not mean they > are dispensationalists. He gives no evidence that the early > use of these (dispensations) means the same as what folks > today mean when they talk about dispensations or > dispensationalism. I believe the Westminster Confession of > Faith (1643) uses the term dispensations but most certainly > not in the same way that dispensationalists today would use > the term. Case in point at the opposite spectrum of > dispensationalism is covenant theology. Covenant theologians > recognize the following covenants - Adamic, Noahic, > Abrahamic, Mosaic, Davidic, and the New Covenant. (note these > are some of the same divisions noted below. But in covenant > theology the epochs are not distinct and separate but build > on one another with that later being more explicit or showing > a different facet of the earlier ones. And there is weaving > through all this the one unified Covenant of Grace. > > Sorry Bro. Papa I can't answer your questions - well I could > but you wouldn't like my answers. :-). > > Peace, > Steve > > > > > ? > Pastor David Warner wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Derick Dickens [mailto:Derick@...] > > Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 2:38 PM > > To: pastorsforum@... > > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Dispensationalism > > > > I am curious as to why someone would want > Dispensationalism spelled > > out in your doctrinal statement? Would you wish to disassociate > > with other churches who rejected dispensationalism or > would you want > > to reject members based upon dispensationalism? I am curious > > because this 150 year old theology does not seem to be > intrinsic to > > a church identity. > > > > Derick > > > > > > > > How does this fit with a 150 year old theology? > > David Warner > > > > > > > > > > The History of Dispensationalism > > > > As the decades come and go, so do the issues > surrounding what the > > Bible actually teaches. One decade saw the battle over > the virgin > > birth. The next witnessed a battle for the preservation > of the King > > James Bible. The most recent debate is over the pre-tribulation > > rapture verses the "pre-wrath" or mid-tribulation rapture > > position. > > > > Some critics assume that dispensationalism is a recent doctrine > > invented by Dr. C. I. Scofield, editor of the famous Scofield > > Reference Bible, and J. N. Darby; implying that > dispensationalism is > > a doctrine of modern times and does not have Biblical authority. > > However, research will show that neither C. I. Scofield or J. N. > > Darby are the inventors of dispensationalism or the > final authority > > on the subject. > > > > From the first century, writers believed in different > economies or > > administrations. Bible instructor Larry V. Crutchfield, of > > Baumholder, West Germany, has written an article titled Ages and > > Dispensations Of The Ante-Nicene Fathers. In it he > points out that > > the Fathers of early church history believed in > divisions of history > > based on God's dealings with man. He states, "Among those whose > > doctrine of ages and dispensations has survived from > the Ante-Nicene > > period are Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, > Methodius, and to a > > minor degree Victorinus of Petau." > > > > Crutchfield says that "Barnabas' year-day tradition is > the earliest > > budding of the dispensational understanding of God's > dealings with > man." > > > > Justin Martyr (AD 100-165): according to Crutchfield, Justin > > believed in four phases of human history in God's > program. The first > > was from Adam to Abraham; the second was from Abraham > to Moses; the > > third was from Moses to Christ; and the fourth was from > Christ to > > the eternal state. > > > > Irenaeus (AD 120-202): The dispensational scheme of > Irenaeus is four > > in number. They are: 1. From the Creation to the Flood. > 2. From the > > Flood to the Law. 3. From the Law to the Gospel. 4. > From the Gospel > > to the Eternal State. He taught that there were four > zones of the > > world and of mankind. He saw a connection between these > zones, the > > faces of the "four living creatures", the four gospels > and the four > > dispensations. > > > > "Some Fathers set forth only four such dispensations, > others came > > very close to making nearly the same divisions modern > > dispensationalists do," says Crutchfield. > > > > He continues, "Irenaeus, Victorinus of Petau, and > Methodius' number > > of dispensations is artificially restricted to four ... the > > dispensations are most often spoken of the early > fathers in terms of > > the prominent persons." He lists the persons as; Adam, Noah, > > Abraham, Moses, and Christ. "Dispensational divisions were > > customarily made along the boundaries of these five > men's lives and > > times," concludes Crutchfield. > > > > > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, > liberty; and in all things, charity." > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, > liberty; and in all things, charity." > >