Thanks Derick, for your thoughts on this. Do you believe that the writings of religious people down through history were burned or destroyed by the state churches or "official" churches at various times and in various places? Do you think there is any evidence of this? Do you think people died at the hands of "the religious establishment" by a variety of tortuous means because of their beliefs and practices? Answering these questions might help me better understand your position. You brought up "landmarkists." Do you know where they came from? Well, after Mr. Whitsitt refused to admit his error he was dismissed from Southern Baptist Seminary in 1898. He was dismissed because he was living off the sacrifices of the Baptist people who paid his salary while he sought to make Protestants out of Baptists which was contrary to history. However, his "antichristian forgery" became accepted after his death. His "English Descent Theory" became the official stance of the Southern Baptist Convention. In 1905, a large number of Baptists disagreed with the Whitsitt stance, withdrew from the convention and formed the American Baptist Association. (Landmark Baptist) You mention believer's baptism as a belief held by some of these groups but there was so much more you didn't mention. What denominational label would you place on someone who believed in salvation by grace, who baptized by immersion upon a profession of faith, who believed the Bible to be without error and believed in a regenerate church membership? Let's go back, let's say to 15000 A.D., and see what religious group you would call them. You already know what I call them. Would you say they were Catholic? Luther hadn't come on the scene yet so there wasn't any real protest within the Catholic church and therefore no protestants. So what would you call them? Derick, I appreciate the way you at least stay on track and deal with the issue. So many go berserk in their opposition they can't seem to focus on the topic. While we may disagree I do want to note that from you. Thanks. David Warner > -----Original Message----- > From: Derick R. Dickens [mailto:Derick@...] > Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 10:09 AM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] distorted history > > David, > > There is no doubt that some would distort history. That is > concievable. > What is not concievable is that the number of required > distortions plus the years of those distortions, plus, the > insistence of modern landmarkists to insist that despite no > evidence of distortion, we must hold to a distortion. When > you add all this up you must conclude that at best these > other groups "MAY not be heretics". Yet, to conclude that > these groups "MUST be Baptists" is fantasy when you have no > evidence. One doctrine, which is all we know of some of > these groups, does not a Baptist make. A person could > believe in believers Baptism (as some did) but also deny the > Trinity... that person is not a Baptist. Yet, what some half > hearted theologians have done is assumed that since they > believe in believers Baptism they also believe in all the > other forms of orthodoxy. > That is a stretch. > > Derick > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, > liberty; and in all things, charity." >