On 6/14/06, Bill burns <burnswh@...> wrote: > I think God does value "free will" more than His children. Why, He wants us > to come to Him freely and to strive to be more Christ-like freely. If He > wanted us to do otherwise He would have made robots. God doesnt want > robots!! > So, Bill, when women are raped, children are brutally abused, men suffer horrible accidents, and puppies are drowned ... does God sit idly by whistling to Himself "hmm hmm hmm I could step in and fix that but free-will ya' know ... wouldn't want to interfere." Is that your idea of a loving God? If this is your conception of God's involvement in our lives than what sense can you possibly make out of Rom 8:28? Is libertarian free-will a sufficient enough "good" in itself to justify a world where all of the pain and suffering in this world vastly outweighs the good? Would not a wise God choose to create only if He were confident that substantive moral good would be secure? How can he do that if He isn't "acquainted with all of our steps?" (Psa 139:3) If God creates us with the power to go against His plan, then is it not entirely possible that evil will prevail over good? How can God guarantee that His good purposes will prevail? Did Jesus go to the cross only "hoping" that maybe someone will wake up and choose Him? Would God send His Son to die on a "hope and a prayer?" That would be pretty risky, would it not? Considering that no one seeks after God and that we all have turned to our own way, that's a very foolish risk to take. Also, Bill, will we have the same freedom in heaven? After all, God wouldn't want "robots" worshipping Him in heaven, right? If so, that how will believers live sinlessly for eternity while retaining libertarian freedom? Either they can and may sin, in which case eternal life cannot be promised with certainty, or they do no have libertarian freedom and so cannot sin, but neither, then, according to your definition, can they love and worship God Predestination glorifies God -- it does not make us robots. -- Grace and peace, Kevin Sigafoos --------------------- For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen. (Rom 11:36)