Miguel, I wish I had time to respond to this because I think you are dividing the idea of Covenant from Salvation. The Covenant is Salvation and thus cannot be divided... thus relationship and salvation are intrinsically linked. Derick > Hey Mike > > Breaking a relationship vs breaking salvation are two different things - > Jesus said that all that the father has given him - no man can take > away...that is salvation. > > Col 2:10 - we are complete in him > Phil 1:6 - he will perfect us > > Salvation is unilateral - it does not depend on man's ability to keep the > covenant - it is based entirely on God and his ability to keep his word. > His word that he forgives all sin (past, present and future). > > Christ is sufficient for us - we need nothing else. > > Once saved - we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise - which is the > earnest of our inheritance (a non-refundable down payment). > > 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the > gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were > sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our > inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the > praise of his glory. (Eph 1:13-14 KJV) > > Write ye also for the Jews, as it liketh you, in the kings name, and seal > it with the kings ring: for the writing which is written in the kings > name, and sealed with the kings ring, may no man reverse. (Ester 8:8 KJV) > > Once sealed by the KING of Kings - it (salvation) can not be reversed. > > We may loose our blessings, our rewards, we may be chasten by the Lord > because he loves us - but we do remain his adopted child. There is no > scripture to show he unadopts us, there is no scripture to show we are > once again under condemnation. What we are told if that if we were once > saved and if it were possible to lose our salvation - we can never be > saved again (Heb 6). > > Miguel > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "michael ray tittle, dds" <drmike1@...> > >> >> Hi Kevin >> >> Just a simple question. >> >> Your thoughts are that after we get saved, nothing >> we do will break that relationship with God. We >> are always saved. We can murder, steal, lie, commit >> adultry or anything we want to do, and still be saved. >> >> My question. Why do we have to go through the >> motions of getting saved. God has the same >> grace before we ask for forgivness as He does >> after forgivness. Why doesn't He just forgive >> everybody anyway, and then no one would ever have to >> worry about going to hell. >> >> Just a thought >> >> MIke >> >> >> >> >> >> > [Original Message] >> > From: Kevin Sigafoos >> > To: >> > Date: 6/14/2006 10:41:49 AM >> > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Calvinism vs. Arminianism >> > >> > DJ, >> > >> > If salvation is received by faith and faith can be lost, then can >> > salvation by lost? Is keeping my faith my responsibility? If so, >> > then I am saved by the work of keeping my faith and not by the faith >> > itself. >> > >> > Look carefully at what Eph 2:8-9 is teaching: >> > >> > For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your >> > own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no >> > one may boast. >> > (Eph 2:8-9) >> > >> > We are NOT saved BY faith -- we are saved BY grace THROUGH faith. >> > God's grace, His good will and undeserved mercy, remains even if we >> > loose faith. (Aside: I'm not saying it is possible to loose faith. >> > Keep reading.) The means God uses to extend His grace to us is faith. >> > That faith is a gift. It is not something we cook up for ourselves. >> > We would never come to Christ on our own. He must draw us first and >> > give us faith. That's grace! >> > >> > We were dead. We were alienated from God. We were His enemies. Yet >> > God, rich in mercy, made us alive in Christ. (Eph 2:1-7) That's >> > grace! >> > >> > If faith is a gift of God's grace then can it ever be lost? No! What >> > God has given He will never take away. That would make God a liar. >> > >> > Can sin destroy faith? No! Sin can, and does, break fellowship with >> > God but He does not disown us. Nothing I can do can undo what Christ >> > did on the cross. If Christ bore ALL of our sins at Calvary, can God >> > demand payment again? No! That would make God unjust. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > >> > Grace and peace, >> > Kevin Sigafoos >> > --------------------- >> > For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be >> > glory forever. Amen. (Rom 11:36) >> > >> > -- >> > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: >> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >> > >> > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in >> all >> things, charity." >> >> -- >> To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: >> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >> >> "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in >> all >> things, charity." >> > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in all > things, charity." >