Jerry,

My church has some close relationships with Piper's Church (one of our
mission trips this year has recieved much support from Bethlehem Baptist).
 Our church encourages people to read Piper's works and Piper is highly
respected in our church, though we have some disagreements on various
issues including the one you listed.

Having said that, I will also say that my church strongly disagrees with
his view on the sign gifts.  One of the Pastors here has written a book on
the topic taking the negative view ("To Be Continued" by Dr. Sam Waldron).

For me, the issue probably receives a little too much attention in some
circles but then again not enough attention in other circles :).  BTW, to
modify a phrase from C.J. Mahaney, the great thing about being a
cessationalist is that I can have a strange dream and fall right back to
sleep not giving it a second thought... non-cessationists dream and wake
up but have a hard time figuring if the dream was from God or just a bad
supper (C.J. is a non-cessationist).

Derick



> Strange, .... I am definitely not a Calvinist or an Armenianist (Sp?) (I
> believe that both are errant religious theological systems) ... but today
> I happened to hear both RC Sproll and John Piper on the radio. (I was
> working my Bi-vo job out of town.)  I do enjoy the teaching of both of
> these men,even though both are died in the wool Calvinists, ...  but am
> not able to catch them often.
>
> By the way, Piper has a couple of  excellent articles regarding miracles
> and cessationism called: "Signs and Wonders: Then and Now,"   and
> "Compassion, Power, and the Kingdom of God."  They can be read at:
>
> http://www.desiringgod.org/library/topics/spiritual_gifts/signs_wonders.html
>
> http://www.desiringgod.org/library/sermons/90/030490.html
>
> In the first article, Piper deals with the answers to the questions:
> This question determines my starting point: Is the experience of signs and
> wonders detrimental to the centrality of Scripture and preaching? In other
> words, does it depreciate the supernatural power of God's written and
> preached word; does it contradict the sufficiency of the gospel to save
> sinners; does the search for signs signify a loss of confidence in the
> word of the cross?
>
> In another article he explores these objections:
>
> http://www.desiringgod.org/library/sermons/91/021791.html
>
> Now let me bring in the objection that is sometimes brought up against
> praying for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit with power in signs and
> wonders today. Some people say that this compromises the centrality of the
> word of God. It depreciates the value of preaching God's word. It
> jeopardizes the sufficiency of the word of God to save sinners. If signs
> and wonders are added to preaching it must be because God's word is not
> trusted or esteemed as sufficient to save. That's the sort of thing you
> hear. Right?
>
> When searching for the above articles to include the links in this post, I
> also found an article from  a message Piper shared at a Pastor's
> conference called "A Passion for Christ Exalting Power " ...  I have only
> read parts of it so far, but it has really stirred my heart this
> evening....
>
> In this message Piper speaks of Martyn Lloyd-Jones and says of him,
>
> Many called him the last of the Calvinistic Methodist preachers because he
> combined Calvin's love for truth and sound reformed doctrine with the fire
> and passion of the eighteenth-century Methodist revival.
>
> Even though I do not agree with all of his appraisals in regard to
> excesses of some charismatics, he has some very interesting insight.
>
> This inspiring message is located at:
>
> http://www.desiringgod.org/cgi-bin/print.cgi?http://www.desiringgod.org/library/biographies/91lloyd_jones.html
>
> Jerry
>
> PS:  Please do not worry, Steve, I am well-insulated and protected from
> Calvinism ....
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Derick R. Dickens" <Derick@...>
> To: <pastorsforum@...>
> Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 6:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Witnessing vs Evangelism????
>
>
>> There are differing thrusts to each word.  While I did not hear what
>> Sproul said about the two (and am curious) I do believe that the thrusts
>> are entirely different.  Witnessing sends a connotation of a personal
>> testimony of something while evangelism has the connotation of giving
>> the
>> gospel.  You can do either without the other.  This is what I assume you
>> are getting at... but Sproul, being the linguistic scholar he is,
>> probably
>> had much more insight than I have.
>>
>> Derick
>>
>>> Gentlemen,
>>>
>>> I heard RC Sproll on the radio today ....  he said there was a
>>> difference
>>> between witnessing and evangelism, that they are not the same thing.
>>>
>>> What is your view on this?  Are they different terms for the same thing
>>> or
>>> are they different concepts entirely?
>>>
>>> How is witnessing different from evangelizing?
>>>
>>> Jerry
>>> --
>>> To unsubscribe, send ANY message to:
>>> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@associate.
>>> com
>>>
>>> "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in a
>>> ll things, charity."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe, send ANY message to:
>> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>>
>> "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in
>> all things, charity."
>>
> --
> To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@associate.
> com
>
> "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in a
> ll things, charity."
>
>
>