Derick,
Your statement of "reformed theology" being the reason for the high
attendance is what I am skeptical of. I am impressed that that is pure
speculation.
Come now, .... how many reformed churches of all denominations do not even
have services on Sunday and Wed. evenings????
How many reformed churches of all denominations are struggling with
attendance across the country and also in Europe?
It is extremely rare, and not the general rule, that a Southern Baptist
church will have more in attendance than the total number of church members.
There are a few instances where that is the case.
Church membership figures are often inflated because churches do not make
corrections when people move or do not attend for large segments of time.
On any given Sunday, the average Southern Baptist church will have only
about a third of its reported membership in attendance in the morning
service.
I am joyful at being a Southern Baptist, yet I do see this as a big problem
in Baptist circles. For the most part, denominational leadership seems to
be ignoring this problem, just like they ignore the hidden cult in our
midst.
If the attendance at your church is greater than the number of members on
the church role, I would think that it is because of other reasons and not
simply because of Calvinism.
What percentage of the members of your church really understand and agree
wholly with the teachings of Calvinism????
Just a few years ago, we had a Calvinistic pastor who split a large church
in our association over the issue of reformed theology. He immediately
started a new church with the group that followed him out of the church
split. The new church lasted a little over a year before it dried up. Of
course, as with every church split, there were many people who just stopped
going to church at all.
Now, I understand that there are multiple reasons for church splits. All of
them are sad. Calvinism was THE issue in this one.
It is my observation that Calvinism, or reformed theology, is not a unifying
factor in Christianity. Neither is it a stimulant for church attendance.
Most Baptists that I am acquainted with KNOW that God loves all sinners and
will save anyone who will receive Christ by believing on His name. They
know that Christ will save the worst sinner, no matter how bad a person he
has been.
They will stand up and walk out on any preacher who preaches that God only
loves the "elect."
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Derick R. Dickens" <Derick@...>
To: <pastorsforum@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Don't Need As Much Church
> Jerry,
>
> I am not kidding. If you give me the average reformed Baptist Church
> (that is reformed, not reforming) on average, the attendance is higher
> than the membership on the role. Our church is no difference. As well, I
> have never been to a non-reformed church that seemed to be dedicated and
> focused on the Lord's Day as being the "Lord's Day" like I have been in
> the reformed circles. In our church it is not only talked about, ideas
> are exchanged regularly on how to make the Lord's Day more glorifying to
> the Lord on that Day. When was the last time you had conversations
> initiated by laymen on that subject. I can honestly say that since in
> Owensboro, I have barely had a month go by where I several conversations
> on that issue have not been evident.
>
> Derick
>
>> Derick said,
>> "To be honest with you, I personally believe this is a result of our
>> reformed theology... "
>>
>> Jerry says,
>> Do what??????? You've got to be kidding!!!!!! ....
>>
>> .... Do I hear "Twillight Zone" theme music, or what ??????
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Derick R. Dickens" <Derick@...>
>> To: <pastorsforum@...>
>> Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 11:17 AM
>> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Don't Need As Much Church
>>
>>
>>>I am a part of a church now that, for the first time I have ever seen,
>>> does not experience a major summer slump. Of course, we do have people
>>> take vacations and are out of town, but when they are in town they
>>> attend
>>> church.
>>>
>>> Having said that, our Sunday Night is packed out and barely a seat
>>> remaining...
>>>
>>> I agree with you that the Lord's Day is important, afterall, it is
>>> called
>>> "The Lord's Day." WHen I hear what that one person told you, that we
>>> don't need church like they used to... I cringe. It is not that I need
>>> church but that God is so wonderful I don't want to miss church. Yes, I
>>> do need it.. but it is God I am after.
>>>
>>> When reflecting what our church does to encourage strong attendance,
>>> here
>>> are some of my thoughts.
>>>
>>> 1. We teach that the Lord's Day is the Lord's Day. THis is the day
>>> when
>>> we rest from our work and get to experience the greatness of God.
>>>
>>> 2. We teach that church attendance is not optional for Christians. If
>>> you love God you love to come to church.
>>>
>>> 3. We do not let secular persuits interfere with the Lord's Day. THis
>>> is
>>> the first church I belong to where people don't talk about the "football
>>> game", NASCAR, or things like that. If it occurs on Sunday, it is
>>> unimportant. Our church does not really care about those things. THey
>>> care about it being the Lord's Day. WE don't participate in sports nor
>>> does our church have "Birthday parties" or other things like that.
>>> Again,
>>> this is the "Lord's Day" not anyone else's.
>>>
>>> 4. We don't believe that we have to get somewhere after church but
>>> believe that church is the entire purpose of our day. Oftentimes I get
>>> to
>>> church at 9:15 and barely leave before 1:00. Why? Our people come to
>>> church to enjoy church, not to rush to another appointment.
>>>
>>> Of course, this does not change over night. Yet, our church is a fairly
>>> good size with four Pastors (probably will add a couple more in the next
>>> year or two). Yet, the people love church... they attend regularly, and
>>> appreciate attendance.
>>>
>>> To be honest with you, I personally believe this is a result of our
>>> reformed theology... but overall we take seriously the Lord's Day.
>>>
>>> Derick
>>>
>>>> Fellow Ministers:
>>>>
>>>> I believe that most of us experience lower attendance in the summer
>>>> time. As the old saying goes everyone is either down at the mountains
>>>> or
>>>> up at the beach. I must admit that I am at a loss of ideas to get
>>>> people
>>>> to attend Sunday Evening & Wednesday Evening services. I have tried
>>>> everything I know and the attendance is just plain pitiful. Sunday
>>>> Mornings do well, even with the summer slump, but the others is way
>>>> down.
>>>>
>>>> Recently I was sharing this with someone and I was told not to worry
>>>> about it, people today just don't need as much church as they use too!
>>>> Is that so? Do you guys believe that? I would really like to know what
>>>> you think! Not looking for a debate, just a discussion on the
>>>> importance
>>>> of church.
>>>>
>>>> I know that I am old school in so many ways! I just came back from a
>>>> week of summer camp with our kids, and believe me I feel my age. I am
>>>> sure that the culture that our kids live in today is far removed from
>>>> what I was raised in. But I have to wonder, is church just not as
>>>> necessary as it once was? Have we outgrown the worship services? Has TV
>>>> church, and Radio spots, and the internet made the need for church null
>>>> and void? Were is the local church headed? Are we moving to a Sunday
>>>> Morning only, and if we are, in 20 years will we even have that? Is the
>>>> next step that we do not need God as much as we use too?
>>>>
>>>> I must confess, that I feel that this is a wrong concept. It seems to
>>>> me
>>>> that the less importance the church plays in society the worse society
>>>> gets, When I shared this with the individual I was talking too, his
>>>> reply was that I was just worried about my job, and felt threatened,
>>>> because if no one came to church then I would no longer be needed. Is
>>>> my
>>>> push for people to come to church more of a ego thing? I need the
>>>> attendance to rise so I can boast about what MY Church is
>>>> doing...........
>>>>
>>>> Please share with me. After 27 years in the ministry I must admit I am
>>>> perplexed. I am 43, started preaching at 16, I have done this all my
>>>> life. I am concerned that the attitude about church and church
>>>> attendance is a symptom of what is happening to America, and that is a
>>>> move away from God. What do you think?
>>>>
>>>> Kevin Jackson
>>>> Pastor
>>>> Gum Swamp FWB Church
>>>> Greenville, NC
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> To unsubscribe, send ANY message to:
>>>> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>>>>
>>>> "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in
>>>> all
>>>> things, charity."
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> To unsubscribe, send ANY message to:
>>> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>>>
>>> "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in
>>> all
>>> things, charity."
>>>
>>
>> --
>> To unsubscribe, send ANY message to:
>> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>>
>> "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in all
>> things, charity."
>>
>>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, send ANY message to:
> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>
> "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in all
> things, charity."
>