define "cuss" for me :) words are all cultural - what you see as a "cuss" may not be one in my world - and what you see as "normal" may be a "cuss" in my world. it is all relative :) pax jok --- John Keeter <jmkeeter@...> wrote: > A question out of curiosity gleaned from, your > webpage---should a Christian > "curse" ("cuss" down south) in order to get a > message across? > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "john okeefe" <jxpxus@...> > To: <pastorsforum@...> > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 5:18 PM > Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] why your church.... > > > > i am new to this little gathering and i wanted to > > thank brian for the invite - i am not sure how i > can > > add to this little group - but i will do my best > :) > > > > to start with, i am the guy who wrote the article > "10 > > reasons your church sucks" :) so i would like to > take > > a few to respond to some of the commments. > > > > as you can tell i am not "conservative" in > theology :) > > i tend to the more "liberal" side of > > postmodern/emerging thought. i use "quotes" > because > > lables are not my style, and people fall where > they > > may - and it's all good. if i may, i would like > to > > address "pastor h's" remarks :) > > > > you wrote: "skeptical and critical lost people > have > > the above views of churches that are ususally > bible > > based and struggling to please God in a wicked > evil > > world" > > > > RE: well, i will admit to being skeptical and > > critical, but not lost :) to discount how others > see > > us as a community of faith based on the fact that > > "they are lost" simply closes the door tighter - > the > > church in the story is a real church, and it is > not > > "struggling to please God" - and my friend, served > as > > a leader in the church i pastored at the time - > so.... > > > > > > you wrote: "...the church isnt perfect and cant > be > > all things to all men" > > > > RE: yea, but as it is now it is nothing to > everyone > > :) the problem with churches today is that they > > demand i "conform" to what they think is right, > but > > not what the bible teaches - i drink wine, in many > > churches that is wrong; i like "altarative music" > and > > that is way out in many churhces; i have a tattoo > and > > both my ears are peireced (with gage) - none of > that > > is against God's teachings, but many churches > would > > not accpet me for my outside look - never gettign > to > > know that inside i am a follower of the one true > God - > > go figure..... by the way, who misses out on that > > relationship? me, for not "conforming" or them, > for > > not accepting? :) > > > > let me answer each point - one at a time :) > > > > "1. become part of the community and undrestand it > by > > being like it...." > > > > cool, and because i do not desire to be like them, > i > > do not join them :) i have no problem with that > at > > all - but they have no right to look at me and my > > community and discount us because we do not look > like > > them. i know i would never be wlecomed as a > pastor in > > your church, i have no problem with that - you > would > > be welcomed at ours - so, who is being closed? > > > > > > "2. leaders be those that are big money people and > who > > cares if their biblically qualified they have > > credentials...." > > > > i have no idea what you mean by this, so i can't > > respond - it you would like to reword it so i > could, > > that would be sweet :) > > > > > > "3. no vision ....a biblical vision is diff than a > rec > > center or arobics or a day care or a weight loss > > class" > > > > why? how? keep in mind, i am postmodern and as > such > > am not impressed with "programs" - so on one level > i > > would agree with you. but if the experience leads > > people to a relationship with christ, is that not > the > > cool thing? > > > > > > "4. inbred...no family members allowed to attend > same > > church togerther" > > > > ok, if you like - but that is not what i said. > whould > > i be welcomed at your church? as i am, looking > like > > "stone cold steve austin" with earrings? whould > you > > want me to change? and if you would, into what? > > clones of who is there now? we need to look to > the > > outside to get new blood into the church, and new > > ideas as well? > > > > > > "5. look no action.....who cares if everyone looks > > like the world and facilities are not > churchy...lets > > do something ....even if its not biblical or in a > gray > > area ...at least we doing something" > > > > you missed the boat on this one. most churches > today > > ask for money, and write check to "solve" socail > > problems - but we, the "postmodern/emerging > > generation" do not want to give you our money - we > > want to give you our time. writing checks to > solve > > the issues of this world does nothing, but getting > > dirty does - i have writen in other articles "we > are > > not checkbook people, we are date book people" - > put > > your faith into action and get out of the pews :) > > pastors, unleash the churches :) > > > > > > "6. out of touch....lets rap and rock and roll and > get > > with the new generation at all costs" > > > > cool, works for me :) > > > > > > "7. misery loves company...let not worry be > > happy....something good is going to happen to > you!!" > > > > yup, that is what jesus teaches :) > > > > > > "8. graying heads....euthenasia..kill me no good > too > > old ......call up dr korvorkian new ministry to > > elderly" > > > > now your just being spitfull > > > > > > "9.money ...put it on a credit card .....the tithe > > whats that? how about a tip...it 15% yahoooooo" > > > > and you don't think you are more concerned with > money > > then anything else :) i was once told by a pastor > who > > disagreed with my issue that tithing is not what > we > > are to do with our money - he said that, "if we do > not > > collect a tithe from the church how are we going > to > > pay to help people be saved?" my answer ticked > him > > off even more - i said, "jesus paid all ready - > all we > > need to is tell people" :) > > > > > > "10. politics......dont let anybody be anything > over > > anybody ...thats dicataorship and your a contro > freak" > > > > > > i find it funny, and i will say that i do not know > > your case, but pastors who pastor "independant > > churches" because they believe that "no one should > > have authority over the church" seem to be the > most > > controling people around. personaly, i like > authority > > and i think it is needed - politica has nothing to > do > > with politics :) > > > > politics is giving into to "miss green" because > she > > gives a lot of money to the church - or not > > confronting "elder smith" about his sinful eating > > habits, because he is a elder and is a leader - or > no > > one will confron the pastor's wife about gossip, > > because she is the pastor's wife :) politics much > > different :) > > > > > > finally you wrote: "hope this stimulates some > > thinking....this is fun stuff" > > > > RE: i agree, and i hop i have added to the debate > - > > and even caused some to come out and comment :) > and i > > hope this opens a dialog for those of us with a > > postmodern/emerging mind :) > > > > pax > > john o'keefe > > ginkworld.net > > > > > > > > ===== > > john o'keefe > > http://www.ginkworld.net > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. > Try it! > > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential > things, liberty; and in all > things, charity." > > > > > > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential > things, liberty; and in all things, charity." > ===== john o'keefe http://www.ginkworld.net __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/