DW,

I do think you are misunderstood in many regards.  For the record, I do
not like joint services as a rule.  Will I have them sometimes... yes, but
I tend to not like them.  I prefer to recommend my church to attend a
special service another church is doing.  For me, this eliminates the
appearance of "you excluded such and such church".

Anyway, my big issue is where we draw that line.  I believe most
conservatives have a line in which they will not associate, the issue is
where we draw that line.

Derick

> Derick,
> I think we are pretty much in agreement here.  I didn't see too much that
> doesn't fit with my way of understanding Scripture.  There were a couple
> areas where I feel you have misunderstood IFB and people like me.  One is
> I
> believe I and others I know are very much engaged in taking the gospel to
> the culture where we live.  Also, I would have coffee with a radical
> Satanists and try to give him the gospel.  I know of no IFB who would not.
> What I suspect is a big part of the problem is the vilification of IFB by
> those who are "offended" because they won't join them in their community
> Thanksgiving services or sing kum by ya around the flag pole.  Yet I have
> fellowship with others outside my church.  I even talked with a lady
> Lutheran "pastor" in the line while we waited to renew our driver's
> license.
> :-)  We are both even listed in the same phone book!  Bahahahahahahah
> Now, a little more serious.  I have friends who are not saved.  One was
> just
> at my house.  I'm hiring him to do some work on the gutters.  He just put
> in
> my new replacement windows for just his costs for the windows.  I'm trying
> to lead him to Christ.  unfortunately, he has worked for too many
> "preachers" who didn't even act saved--except in the pulpit.  One even
> stiffed him for payment on a job!  Not all my neighbors are saved.  I am
> hoping to invite one elderly couple out to dinner in hopes of talking
> about
> the Lord.  They are Methodists so you know they aren't saved! (Just
> kidding!!!!!!!!!!)
> So I think those who judge us, like we've seen on here at times, just
> don't
> know us.
>
> DW
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Derick R. Dickens [mailto:Derick@...]
> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 2:01 PM
> To: pastorsforum@...
> Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] Are You Looking For A Good Church
>
> DW,
>
> You said:
>
> "5.  Because of your misunderstanding or ecumenical friendships, you fail
> to
> obey the Biblical command to separate from unbelievers and disobedient
> brethren and seem to promote a false visible unity at the sake of purity
> and
> holiness.  I say seem because, of course, I'm giving what can be observed
> and not what can't be known of your heart.  Your view of "extreme"
> interpretation of the Biblical doctrine of separation simply reveals your
> bias against fully obedience to what the Bible clearly says.
> 6.  As for fellowship between IFB and non-IFB, it depends on what you mean
> by fellowship.  If you mean having a cup of coffee or a game of golf that
> is
> one thing.  If you mean joining together in an evangelistic service or a
> "communion" service or some other sort of religious service where all the
> Biblical doctrinal differences are disregarded and relegated to
> "non-essentials" then your point might be valid.  But you gave nothing but
> a
> blank statement without any real meaning of what you were talking about."
>
> My response:
>
> David, there is much I agree with you on your posts and some of what I
> think
> is a miscommunication.  If you can grant me some observation and perhaps
> confirm or deny my understanding a little, I would appreciate it.
>
> I do agree with you that many in the modern ecumenical movement are in
> left
> field.  I often agree with some of your criticisms of people like Billy
> Graham (or I agree with your hesitancy on such people) and others who seem
> to make light of doctrine.  Would I go hear Billy Graham?  Yes!
> Would I invite him into my pulpit?  No.  Thus, I think you and I are in
> some
> strong agreement on most of what you have written.
>
> Yet, I think there is a misunderstanding with what you mean by
> "fellowshiping with the world."  You see, you and I would agree that in a
> sense we have to have some form of friendship with people in the world.
> That is necessitated by work, family, and other things in life.  I would
> say
> there is nothing wrong with having a coffee with a radical satanist.
> What I think needs to be done and what some may have a problem with is
> where
> do IFBers define the lines of separation?  We can agree that I should not
> enter into a business partnership with an unbeliever but could I voice
> support for an unbeliever who is fighting to end abortion?
>
> One of my fears is that in the past many IFBers (not all, but there are
> many) are trying to be so seperate that they have not engaged the culture
> in
> an effective manner.  For me, this is where I have had difficulty with
> some
> in the IFB field.  They have tried to convey the Gospel, which I respect,
> but they have sometimes failed in becoming "friends of sinners".
>
> I know this is a stereotype and I suspect you and I are going to agree
> much
> on this issue.  Yet, there is a stereotype that when I read your post, I
> thought could progress the conversation.
>
> Finally, on who I will have services with.  For me, I do believe that
> there
> are essential, important, and unimportant doctrine.  I would unite with
> people who held to the essential, important doctrines but did not hold to
> the non-essential/non-vital doctrines.  I think much of this conversation
> is
> dealing with what goes into this realm.  Let me give a good issue that I
> think we can agree upon.  There is a Pastor I know who disagrees with me
> over the issue on whether Jesus could have sinned while on earth.  While I
> think this issue is one that does have bearing on other issues, this is a
> non-essential/non-vital doctrine.  On the other hand, I was asked to let a
> female pastor occupy my pulpit for a funeral.  I caused a lot of people to
> hate me when I said, "No!"  Why?  While I do not think this is "essential"
> to being a Christian, I do believe this is important/vital.
>
> Thus, I think some of the conversation is rooted around these issues.  I
> am
> not saying Doctrine is not important, I am only saying that there are
> areas
> where we can disgree.  The issue is on what issues do we disagree.
>
> Derick
>
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