The use of the word "sacrament" strikes the fear of Rome into many and with good reason perhaps. Just because a thing has been abused does not mean the thing is of no use. Some say sacred ordinances some say sacraments - a rose by any other name .... Thanks for the definition Mike. Pax, Steve MICHAEL SHARON TITTLE wrote: > The Complete Book of Christianity says: > Basic Christian usage is to see a /sacrament/ as “a physical token > that expresses a spiritual reality”: “an outward and visible sign of > an inward and spiritual grace.” Christians use this word /sacrament/ > of the two ordinances “ordained by Christ himself.” The word derives > from the Latin, where it was used of a soldier’s oath of allegiance. > All of this helps us to understand the normal Christian usage of the > word.— > MIke T > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Art Dunham <mailto:artthebaptist@...> > *To: *pastorsforum@... <mailto:pastorsforum@...> > *Sent:* 1/23/2007 2:51:36 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PastorsForum] "amniotic baptism" and "foeto-communion" > > Not to be a nudge, but, then why call them that? I know we > Baptists are known as being a little confrontational about things, > but I like to be more Scriptural in what I call things, > particularly the things pertaining to God's church. > > Art > > On 1/23/07, *Mike* <drmike1@... > <mailto:drmike1@...>> wrote: > > Hi DW > It's maybe not technically a sacrament, but we hold these > practices in high reguard. They don't extend grace in > themselves, but they remind us of the One who does provide > both grace and salvation. > MIke > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* David Warner <mailto:dwarner@...> > *To:* pastorsforum@... > <mailto:pastorsforum@...> > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2007 11:17 AM > *Subject:* RE: [PastorsForum] "amniotic baptism" and > "foeto-communion" > > Now that's better. Thanks for the clarification. Forget > the previous questions, you've answer them here. > > D Warner > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* Mike [mailto:drmike1@... > <mailto:drmike1@...>] > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2007 1:43 PM > *To:* pastorsforum@... > <mailto:pastorsforum@...> > *Subject:* Re: [PastorsForum] "amniotic baptism" and > "foeto-communion" > > Neither extends grace or salvation. We do both, as well as > feet washing, to remember Jesus, and what He did for us,. > > He set the example. He gave the instructions. > > Salvation comes by faith in the Blood He shed. > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Art Dunham <mailto:artthebaptist@...> > > *To:* pastorsforum@... > <mailto:pastorsforum@...> > > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2007 10:19 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [PastorsForum] "amniotic baptism" and > "foeto-communion" > > Do you believe that it has some means of giving or > showing grace? Or do you believe that it is a means to > salvation? What exactly do you mean by sacrament? > > Art dunham > > On 1/23/07, *Mike* < drmike1@... > <mailto:drmike1@...>> wrote: > > Yes, in both cases. > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Jeff Hallmark <mailto:bctexan@...> > > *To:* pastorsforum@... > <mailto:pastorsforum@...> > > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:38 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [PastorsForum] "amniotic baptism" > and "foeto-communion" > > Do you guys consider Baptism and/or the Lord's > Supper - sacraments??? > > Jeff > > and we are off down another bunny trail!!!! hehehehe > > > On 1/23/07, *Kevin Sigafoos* < ksigafoos@... > <mailto:ksigafoos@...>> wrote: > > I really like Wilson's books on marriage, family, > and classical > education ("Reformed Marriage", "Future Men", > "Fidelity", "Federal > Husband" -- I'm going to have to look at that last > one again in light > of the recent fuss). His magazine "Credenda > Agenda" is also well > written, informative, and entertaining. > > I did a bit more research on the Federal Vision > controversy (aka > "Auburn Avenue Controversy") after I posted this. > It seems that the > central aspect of FV is a more robust covenant > theology extending to > the role of the Church and the sacraments in our > salvation. Hence the > parody offered by the Reformation 21 site. I was > disturbed to find > that FV shares some features in common with the > New Perspective of > Paul (though the two are not identical). > > What struck me was the Blog commentator's use of > Samson's > > To subscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-join@... <mailto:pastorsforum-join@...> > > > > To unsubs > > cribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... <mailto:pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Art Dunham > Grace Baptist Church > Woodstock, Virginia > www.gbcwoodstock.com <http://www.gbcwoodstock.com> > > To subscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-join@... <mailto:pastorsforum-join@...> > > > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... <mailto:pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...> > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-join@... <mailto:pastorsforum-join@...> > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... <mailto:pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...> > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... <mailto:pastorsforum-join@...> > > To unsubs > cribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... <mailto:pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...> > > > > > > > -- > Art Dunham > Grace Baptist Church > Woodstock, Virginia > www.gbcwoodstock.com <http://www.gbcwoodstock.com> > > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... > > > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Pastor Steven G. Rockhill Lisbon Reformed Presbyterian Church PO Box 88 Lisbon, NY 13658 315-393-9041 revrock@... http://lisbonrpc.port5.com +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++