sorry Jerry, I guess I don't take "shame on you" as insulting as you do. You seem to take it personally like it is a curse against you. I suppose it could mean that but I just don't take it that seriously. So when you react in a condemning way it seems to me to be an over-reaction. Sorry - I will try to stay out of it from now on. I am now ashamed for getting for stepping in and should have taken my own advice and ignored those who were being rude to one another. I guess I do better when people are rude to me. Sorry for the trouble and misinterpretation. Pax, Steve Jerry wrote: > Steve, > > I am not imposing "shame" on another as a personal insult or a "putdown." > > He persists in shaming me (or others) on PF when he has been called on > it multiple times. > > Your defense of this behavior mystifies me. You speak against those > who are offended and react to his personal insults but do not address > the rudeness of his personal attack???? > > Jerry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven G Rockhill" > <revrock@...> > To: <pastorsforum@...> > Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 11:35 AM > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Who Baptizes? > > >> Why is it said then, if it is not a shame? >> >> Pax, >> Steve >> >> Jerry wrote: >>> Steve, >>> >>>> Are you not implying with your "sadness" that what occurring is a >>>> shame!!!!!! >>> >>> NO. >>> >>> Jerry >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven G Rockhill" >>> <revrock@...> >>> To: <pastorsforum@...> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 10:14 AM >>> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Who Baptizes? >>> >>> >>>> Jerry, >>>> Actually there is a hairsbreadth of difference from saying: >>>> >>>> "Shame on you Jerry for your false accusation. Shame, Shame" >>>> >>>> And >>>> >>>>> It is so sad that you change it (what the Bible teaches) >>>> Are you not implying with your "sadness" that what occurring is a >>>> shame!!!!!! >>>> >>>> Frankly this is a perfect example of the pot calling the kettle >>>> black! The question may be - who insulted who first. But we don't >>>> even need to worry about that - just move on. If someone says >>>> something you don't like just ignore it. >>>> >>>> Pax, >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jerry wrote: >>>>> DW, >>>>> Shame on you Jerry for your false accusation. Shame, shame. >>>>> It looks like you are reverting to your "insult mode" again .... >>>>> Jerry >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> *From:* David Warner <mailto:dwarner@...> >>>>> *To:* pastorsforum@... >>>>> <mailto:pastorsforum@...> >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 01, 2007 4:35 PM >>>>> *Subject:* RE: [PastorsForum] Who Baptizes? >>>>> >>>>> No Jerry, the things you mention are not all found in the Bible. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Jerry [mailto:jlew@...] >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 01, 2007 4:03 PM >>>>> *To:* pastorsforum@... >>>>> <mailto:pastorsforum@...> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [PastorsForum] Who Baptizes? >>>>> >>>>> I am still trying to catch up with almost 300 Emails, but since >>>>> you mentioned my name in your post, I decided to jump in to the >>>>> water .... >>>>> >>>>> In fact, Jerry L often mentions (besides traditions) a number of >>>>> other things that are foreign to me. >>>>> >>>>> Brother, ... the things I mention are all found in the Bible. If >>>>> they are foreign to you, perhaps you need to read a little >>>>> further. I have stated previously how some people read the Bible >>>>> with glasses colored over with religious tradition so that >>>>> everything they read LOOKS like their tradition. They are unable >>>>> to see anything other than their tradition. >>>>> >>>>> From you many posts on this it seems that is what you are >>>>> complaining about. I have read further and what you complain >>>>> about >>>>> is what you have experienced in churches and not what is in the >>>>> Bible. My post had to do with churches, not the Bible. Your >>>>> tradition is not in the Bible. You say some churches are fixed on >>>>> tradition and perhaps in your experience they are. But that is >>>>> foreign to me. I do not see all the problems in churches that you >>>>> see. That is what is foreign to me. >>>>> >>>>> (And as I read back over you comments it occurred to me that you >>>>> may be referring to some of the flakey things that I mentioned a >>>>> time or two as having witnessed people doing. Have you never >>>>> encountered women who thought they had to wear a hanky on top of >>>>> their head in church or they were unspiritual? I could list some >>>>> other freaky things but I have to go on a run.) >>>>> >>>>> Then I look in the Bible and say, “ahhhh, being different; that’s >>>>> a good thing.” >>>>> >>>>> It is never a good thing when you are different than what the >>>>> Bible teaches. >>>>> >>>>> Never said it was. If that is what you got from my post then you >>>>> misread it, misunderstood it, or are just making things up. The >>>>> Bible says it is good to be different than the world; than >>>>> worldly, carnal brethren, than false teachers, than apostates, >>>>> and >>>>> so on. So, yes, it is a good thing to be different. That is >>>>> Separation. >>>>> >>>>> The Book of Acts is not JUST a history book, it sets forth the >>>>> pattern for genuine faith in God for Christians and for church >>>>> ministry. >>>>> >>>>> The church in the New Testament was a church that believed in and >>>>> practiced all of the spiritual gifts of 1 Cor. 12, spoke in >>>>> tongues, cast out demons, prophesied, laid hands on believers for >>>>> them to be filled with the Holy Spirit, laid hands on the sick >>>>> for >>>>> healing (as well as for ordination), "fully preached the gospel >>>>> with mighty signs and wonders (Rom. 15:19), and had women >>>>> involved >>>>> in ministry (prophesying, teaching, praying publicly not in >>>>> church!). (I can give you chapter and verse for each item I >>>>> mentioned if you would like.) >>>>> >>>>> It is so sad that you change it (what the Bible teaches) Shame on >>>>> you Jerry for your false accusation. Shame, shame. and try to >>>>> justify doing church man's way instead of God's way. The Bible >>>>> still says, "Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid >>>>> not to speak with tongues" 1 Cor 14:39, but you (and other >>>>> cessationists) conviently interpret away the clear COMMAND of God >>>>> in the Bible to "covet" the spiritual gift of prophecy and deny >>>>> people the Biblical practice of tongues. Any church that >>>>> prohibits >>>>> people from speaking in tongues is in rebellion against the Word >>>>> of God. Any preaching or teaching that has the effect of stopping >>>>> people from practicing the spiritual gift of tongues has as its >>>>> source and inspiration something other than the Holy Spirit. >>>>> >>>>> Yes, ... much of church life and ministry of today is definitely >>>>> different than the Bible. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, but I will take the New Testament as my authority for >>>>> faith and practice, not the little book, "What Baptists Believe." >>>>> >>>>> I am Baptist by heritage and by choice, but the important >>>>> thing is >>>>> that we believe and live by the Bible and not by the religious >>>>> traditions and interpretations of men. >>>>> >>>>> Jerry >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for you “kind” remarks. >>>>> >>>>> D Warner >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>>>> *From:* David Warner <mailto:dwarner@...> >>>>> >>>>> *To:* pastorsforum@... >>>>> <mailto:pastorsforum@...> >>>>> >>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 31, 2007 12:00 AM >>>>> >>>>> *Subject:* RE: [PastorsForum] Who Baptizes? >>>>> >>>>> Our church visits among themselves. So, the church visits. >>>>> Our >>>>> church visits in the neighborhoods. So, the church visits. >>>>> Our >>>>> church visits visitors. So, the church visits. >>>>> >>>>> Now, I see people say things like this and I wonder, isn’t >>>>> everybody like us? Apparently not. I hear talk of traditions >>>>> that rule churches. I have no idea what that means. But it >>>>> means something to someone and I can only imagine that they >>>>> experiences must be vastly different that our church. In >>>>> fact, >>>>> Jerry L often mentions (besides traditions) a number of other >>>>> things that are foreign to me. I usually read them and think, >>>>> “things must be really different in SC.” If another SBC guys >>>>> agrees with him, then I things, “things must be really >>>>> different in SBC churches.” Our church must be much different >>>>> than most churches to day from the sound of things. Then I >>>>> look in the Bible and say, “ahhhh, being different; that’s a >>>>> good thing.” >>>>> >>>>> D Warner >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* trailblaizers@... >>>>> [mailto:trailblaizers@...] >>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 30, 2007 11:50 PM >>>>> *To:* pastorsforum@... >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [PastorsForum] Who Baptizes? >>>>> >>>>> Has anyone Presented Scripture that show the Great Commission >>>>> was given to the church and not the induval >>>>> >>>>> born again believer. with out believers spreading the gospel >>>>> there would be few saved. the churches to day do not visit. >>>>> some not even their members. >>>>> >>>>> james >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Dpowellaz2@... <mailto:Dpowellaz2@...> >>>>> >>>>> *To:* pastorsforum@... >>>>> <mailto:pastorsforum@...> >>>>> >>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 30, 2007 9:44 PM >>>>> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [PastorsForum] Who Baptizes? >>>>> >>>>> In a message dated 1/30/2007 5:57:16 P.M. US Mountain >>>>> Standard Time, dwarner@... <mailto:dwarner@...> >>>>> writes: >>>>> >>>>> Nope! No sir re bob. There will be absolute purity of >>>>> doctrine and practice and there will not be one >>>>> ecumenical voice in the host of heaven. We will be >>>>> much more than you suspect. We will still be the >>>>> church the Jesus built. (email me privately and I’ll >>>>> tell you what kind that is) >>>>> >>>>> D Warner >>>>> >>>>> David, you verrry verry funnnny man! What you are >>>>> going to >>>>> experience is that your independent group is not as >>>>> important to God as you think it is! Just like there will >>>>> be no giving or taking in marriage there will be no >>>>> Baptists or Methodists ot AoG, etc. We will all be one in >>>>> Christ Jesus! That is extreme ecumenicalism! (grin) I >>>>> already now what you believe and I can't wait to see you >>>>> there next to me playing the drums withy your hands >>>>> lifted >>>>> up in praise!!!!! >>>>> >>>>> (ROTFLOL) >>>>> >>>>> Doc >>>>> >>>>> */Shalom Alechem...Barukh Hashem Y'shua!/** * >>>>> (*Peace and Blessings in Jesus' name!*) >>>>> Pastor David Powell >>>>> >>>>> = >>>>> >>>>> To subscribe, send a message to: >>>>> pastorsforum-join@... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To unsubs= >>>>> >>>>> cribe, send a message to: >>>>> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> = >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.17/661 - >>>>> Release >>>>> Date: 1/30/2007 11:30 PM >>>>> >>>>> To subscribe, send a message to: >>>>> pastorsforum-join@... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, send a message to: >>>>> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To subscribe, send a message to: >>>>> pastorsforum-join@... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To unsubs >>>>> >>>>> cribe, send a message to: >>>>> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe, send a message to: >>>>> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >>>>> >>>>> To unsubs >>>>> cribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >>>>> >>>>> To unsubs >>>>> cribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>> >>>> Pastor Steven G. Rockhill >>>> Lisbon Reformed Presbyterian Church >>>> PO Box 88 >>>> Lisbon, NY 13658 >>>> 315-393-9041 >>>> revrock@... http://lisbonrpc.port5.com >>>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>>> >>>> >>>> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, send a message to: >>>> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >>>> >>>> >>> >>> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >>> >>> To unsubscribe, send a message to: >>> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >>> >>> >> >> -- >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> Pastor Steven G. Rockhill >> Lisbon Reformed Presbyterian Church >> PO Box 88 >> Lisbon, NY 13658 >> 315-393-9041 >> revrock@... http://lisbonrpc.port5.com >> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> >> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >> >> To unsubscribe, send a message to: >> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >> >> > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Pastor Steven G. Rockhill Lisbon Reformed Presbyterian Church PO Box 88 Lisbon, NY 13658 315-393-9041 revrock@... http://lisbonrpc.port5.com +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++