dude - humm, so forgiveness is something that has no value - go figure :) pax jok --- Mike Cantrell <mcantrell@...> wrote: > Did Jonah's sin affect the mariners? > > Mike Cantrell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "john okeefe" <jxpxus@...> > To: <pastorsforum@...> > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 4:43 PM > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Divorced Pastors > > > > so for you then, the sin of others effect those > who > > have not committed the sin? > > > > pax > > jok > > > > --- Mike Cantrell <mcantrell@...> wrote: > > > I don't see the over educated part (not an > attack) > > > and no, according to > > > "my truth" in no case can a divorced person be a > > > pastor. > > > > > > Mike Cantrell > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "john okeefe" <jxpxus@...> > > > To: <pastorsforum@...> > > > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 1:46 PM > > > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Divorced Pastors > > > > > > > > > > mike- > > > > > > > > cool - and i take the "truth"(not absolute > truth > > > :) ) > > > > that it was not directed at me :) but given > that > > > i am > > > > the only divorced,ordained, over educated > pastor > > > on > > > > the block - you can see where i would be > confused > > > :) > > > > > > > > so, you would say that in some cases it would > be > > > ok > > > > for a divorced person to be a pastor? > > > > > > > > pax > > > > jok > > > > > > > > --- Mike Cantrell <mcantrell@...> > wrote: > > > > > John, if you read my post for what I said > > > instead of > > > > > argument,you will find > > > > > that I said "few" and "most" > > > > > The post was not directed at you personally. > > > > > > > > > > Mike Cantrell > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "john okeefe" <jxpxus@...> > > > > > To: <pastorsforum@...> > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 12:23 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Divorced Pastors > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mike, > > > > > > > > > > > > i haveto say you are just so wrong :) i > was > > > going > > > > > to > > > > > > blast you - but then realiezed that my > > > reastion to > > > > > > your words need not be hurtful - we > disagree, > > > but > > > > > you > > > > > > truly need to reread your words and see > how > > > they > > > > > do > > > > > > not make sense - > > > > > > you mention that "in your opinion most" - > > > well, i > > > > > am > > > > > > not in that "most" - the "cause of the > divoce" > > > is > > > > > not > > > > > > up fopr public debate - but i was not in > > > faulst - > > > > > at > > > > > > all - but then in your mind i need to be > > > punished > > > > > for > > > > > > the sins of another :) > > > > > > > > > > > > pax > > > > > > jok > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Mike Cantrell <mcantrell@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I am one of those who believe that a > divorce > > > man > > > > > > > should not be pastor of a church. > However, > > > I > > > > > do > > > > > > > not believe that it cancels out God's > > > calling on > > > > > his > > > > > > > life. A man whom God has called "into > the > > > > > Gospel > > > > > > > Ministry" has other avenues to express > his > > > > > calling. > > > > > > > It is my belief based on the scriptures > > > given in > > > > > > > this forum that a divorced man simply > has > > > not > > > > > "taken > > > > > > > care of his household." Most divorces, > and > > > I > > > > > have > > > > > > > counseled many going through this > terrible > > > > > ordeal, > > > > > > > are the fault of BOTH parties. Very few > are > > > > > caused > > > > > > > by only one mate. If a man or woman > pays > > > > > attention > > > > > > > to the home front and cleaves to and > > > cherishes > > > > > their > > > > > > > mate like scripture tells us to, then > most > > > > > divorces > > > > > > > would not happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike Cantrell > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Charlie Carroll Jr. > > > > > > > To: pastorsforum@... > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 10:54 > AM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Women > > > Preachers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a preacher is divorced he most > > > definitely > > > > > knows > > > > > > > the pain that divorce comes with. Also > the > > > > > stigma > > > > > > > that precedes it. Again I wonder if all > > > > > preachers > > > > > > > comply with all the conditions that Paul > > > speaks > > > > > > > about in 1 Timothy, is divorce more > > > important > > > > > than > > > > > > > any other condition. How about patient, > > > > > hospitable. > > > > > > > Would you quit preaching because you > are > > > not > > > > > > > patient. My brother asked how can you > > > counsel > > > > > > > someone about staying faithful to one > wife > > > if > > > > > you > > > > > > > are divorced. Now I am not saying that > you > > > have > > > > > to > > > > > > > be divorced to talk about divorce. But > a > > > > > divorced > > > > > > > person can tell you first hand what > happens > > > how > > > > > much > > > > > > > pain you feel how alone you feel. You > see I > > > > > know > > > > > > > what happens when you fail in a marriage > I > > > don't > > > > > > > want anyone to go through divorce. Yes I > am > > > > > divorced > > > > > > > and I still don't believe in it. Again > > > would > > > > > not > > > > > > > want anybody to go through it. But God > > > still > > > > > uses > > > > > > > me, and when He tells me (and believe me > He > > > will > > > > > let > > > > > > > me know ) to stop preaching I will stop. > > > > > Because > > > > > > > not being in God's will is the worst > > > possible > > > > > place > > > > > > > to be. I know a lot of you will have a > lot > > > of > > > > > > > criticism for me, but I had rather do > what > > > God > > > > > > > called me to do than what man tells me. > > > > > Sometimes it > > > > > > > would be so much easier to just quit > rather > > > that > > > > > > > have to listen to so much criticism. But > > > that's > > > > > when > > > > > > > I remember the cross and what my Jesus > did > > > for > > > > > me > > > > > > > and it seems to make it a little easier. > I > > > have > > > > > > > heard this said "the Christian army is > the > > > only > > > > > army > > > > > > > that shoots their wounded" maybe we > ought > > > to > > > > > start > > > > > > > reaching our hands out to lift someone > up > > > rather > > > > > > > than push them back down. > > > > > > > Here because of Jesus > > > > > > > Charlie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Warren Webster > > > > > > > To: pastorsforum@... > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 3:18 > PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Women > > > Preachers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your bible must read differently > than > > > mine. > > > > > For > > > > > > > the life of me, I cannot find where she > was > > > a > > > > > > > Deacon--it does NOT say that! Being a > > > servant > > > > > does > > > > > > > not make you a deacon--have met a few in > my > > > > > lifetime > > > > > > > who for sure were not servants! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have noticed that everyone that > says > > > that > > > > > I > > > > > > > Timothy 3:12 does not refer just having > one > > > > > wife, > > > > > > > are almost always without exception > divorced > > > > > > > themselves. An interesting thot, how do > you > > > > > counsel > > > > > > > with someone about divorce and staying > > > faithful > > > > > to > > > > > > > one wife when you are divorced? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Women are certainly not second class > > > > > citizens > > > > > > > and without them it would be impossible > to > > > run a > > > > > > > church, but contrarywise, God never > called > > > them > > > > > to > > > > > > > preach and/or be deacons. I do not > think > > > that > > > > > it is > > > > > > > too difficult to understand what is very > > > plain > > > > > in > > > > > > > the Scriptures. By the way, women are > > > happiest > > > > > when > > > > > > > they are in subjection to a man who > takes > > > care > > > > > of > > > > > > > them and protects them and loves them > and > > > treats > > > > > > > them as the Queen of the home. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have a good day. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warren D. Webster > > > > > > > Ind. Baptist Preacher in Japan > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: J > > > > > > > To: pastorsforum@... > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 06, 2004 > 2:10 > > > AM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Women > > > > > Preachers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brother Cecil, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do not tear the page with > > > Romans > > > > > 16:1 > > > > > > > out of your Bible. It is still the Word > of > > > God > > > > > that > > > > > > > declares a WOMAN, Phoebe, was a DEACON > in > > > the > > > > > > > church. 2 Tim. 3 12 MUST be interpreted > in > > > > > light of > > > > > > > Romans 16:1. Paul was not contradicting > > > > > himself. > > > > > > > The meaning of 2 Tim 3:12 has to be in > > > regard to > > > > > > > plural marriage and not divorce and > > > remarriage > > > > > or > > > > > > > even that only a married man can be a > > > deacon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry L. > > > > > > > Southside Baptist > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: Cecil Tiller > > > > > > > To: pastorsforum@... > > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 05, > 2004 > > > 4:09 > > > > > PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] > Women > > > > > Preachers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You must have a "problem" > > > interpreting 2 > > > > > > > Tim.3:1,12 > > > > > > > "If a man...", vs 12 "Let the > > > deacons be > > > > > the > > > > > > > husbands of one wife....." > > > > > > > Cecil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ***************** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > john okeefe <jxpxus@...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > jerry - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i have zero problem with a > women > > > > > pastor :) > > > > > > > i think > > > > > > > God calls heart, not gender :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > > > > Yahoo! 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