Dear Good Brothers, I have been monitoring this line of discussion on the Trinity and in particular 'The Formula To Baptize Converts'. First, how can a finite mind [you and me] understand an infinate God?? Impossible!!! God has revealed to us that there is an Adorable Godhead that includes 1. The Father 2. The Son 3. The Holy Ghost [SPirit] Genesis uses the term Elohyim being a plural form of 'El or 'Eloah to show that there is One God in three persons. The one true God has revealed himself as the eternally self-existent I AM, the Creator of heaven and earth and the Redeemer of mankind. He has further revealed himself as embodying the principles of relationship and association as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (Deuteronomy 6:4; Isaiah 43:10,11; Matthew 28:19; Luke 3:22). THE ADORABLE GODHEAD (a) Terms Defined The terms trinity and persons, as related to the godhead, while not found in the Scriptures, are words in harmony with Scripture, whereby we may convey to others our immediate understanding of the doctrine of Christ respecting the Being of God, as distinguished from gods many and lords many. We therefore may speak with propriety of the Lord our God, who is One Lord, as a Trinity or as one Being of three persons, and still be absolutely scriptural (examples, Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14; John 14:16,17). (b) Distinction and Relationship in the Godhead Christ taught a distinction of persons in the godhead which He expressed in specific terms of relationship, as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but that this distinction and relationship, as to its mode is inscrutable and incomprehensible, because unexplained (Luke 1:35; 1 Corinthians 1:24; Matthew 11:25-27; 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14; 1 John 1:3,4). (c) Unity of the One Being of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit Accordingly, therefore, there is that in the Father which constitutes Him the Father and not the Son; there is that in the Son which constitutes Him the Son and not the Father; and there is that in the Holy Spirit which constitutes Him the Holy Spirit and not either the Father or the Son. Wherefore, the Father is the Begetter; the Son is the Begotten; and the Holy Spirit is the One proceeding from the Father and the Son. Therefore, because these three persons in the godhead are in a state of unity, there is but one Lord God Almighty and His name one (John 1:18; 15:26; 17:11,21; Zechariah 14:9). (d) Identity and Cooperation in the Godhead The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are never identical as to person; nor confused as to relation; nor divided in respect to the godhead; nor opposed as to cooperation. The Son is in the Father and the Father is in the Son as to relationship. The Son is with the Father and the Father is with the Son, as to fellowship. The Father is not from the Son, but the Son is from the Father, as to authority. The Holy Spirit is from the Father and the Son proceeding, as to nature, relationship, cooperation, and authority. Hence, no person in the godhead either exists or works separately or independently of the others (John 5:17-30,32,37; 8:17,18). (e) The Title, Lord Jesus Christ The appellation Lord Jesus Christ, is a proper name. It is never applied in the New Testament either to the Father or to the Holy Spirit. It therefore belongs exclusively to the Son of God (Romans 1:1-3,7; 2 John 3). (f) The Lord Jesus Christ, God With Us The Lord Jesus Christ, as to His divine and eternal nature, is the proper and only Begotten of the Father, but as to His human nature, He is the proper Son of Man. He is, therefore, acknowledged to be both God and man; who because He is God and man, is Immanuel, God with us (Matthew 1:23; 1 John 4:2,10,14; Revelation 1:13,17). (g) The Title, Son of God Since the name Immanuel embraces both God and man, in the one person, our Lord Jesus Christ, it follows that the title Son of God describes His proper deity, and the title Son of Man, His proper humanity. Therefore, the title Son of God belongs to the order of eternity, and the title Son of Man to the order of time (Matthew 1:21-23; 2 John 3; 1 John 3:8; Hebrews 7:3; 1:1-13). (h) Transgression of the Doctrine of Christ Wherefore, it is a transgression of the doctrine of Christ to say that Jesus Christ derived the title Son of God solely from the fact of the Incarnation, or because of His relation to the economy of redemption. Therefore, to deny that the Father is a real and eternal Father, and that the Son is a real and eternal Son, is a denial of the distinction and relationship in the Being of God; a denial of the Father and the Son; and a displacement of the truth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (2 John 9; John 1:1,2,14,18,29,49; 1 John 2:22,23; 4:1-5; Hebrews 12:2). (i) Exaltation of Jesus Christ as Lord The Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, having by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high, angels and principalities and powers having been made subject unto Him. And having been made both Lord and Christ, He sent the Holy Spirit that we, in the name of Jesus, might bow our knees and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father until the end, when the Son shall become subject to the Father that God may be all in all (Hebrews 1:3; 1 Peter 3:22; Acts 2:32-36; Romans 14:11; 1 Corinthians 15:24-28). (j) Equal Honor to the Father and to the Son Wherefore, since the Father has delivered all judgment unto the Son, it is not only the express duty of all in heaven and on earth to bow the knee, but it is an unspeakable joy in the Holy Spirit to ascribe unto the Son all the attributes of deity, and to give Him all the honor and the glory contained in all the names and titles of the godhead except those which express relationship (see paragraphs b, c, and d), and thus honor the Son even as we honor the Father (John 5:22,23; 1 Peter 1:8; Revelation 5:6-14; Philippians 2:8,9; Revelation 7:9,10; 4:8-11). I remember years ago, the Senior Pastor at the church I was at had a formula that included using Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as well as In Jesus Name, when he baptized everyone. That way, he avoided the controversy over which is right. God Bless All, Al Corey --- Jerry <jlew@...> wrote: > Jeff, > > IMOHO -- Hogwash > > Is that all????? ... with no explanation??? > > Have you lost the ability to formulate a coherent > counterargument???? > > Jerry > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeff Hallmark > To: pastorsforum@... > Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 12:26 AM > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] The Trinity > > > IMOHO -- Hogwash > > > On 3/11/07, Jerry <jlew@...> wrote: > 1. Do you have to understand the Trinity to be > saved? > NO !!! > > 2. Can you deny the Trinity and be a Christian? > > Yes. > > Would you consider oneness Pentecostals > Christians including those like T.D. Jakes? Why or > why not? > Yes, .... if they trust in Christ as Savior > ...... > > .... and it seems to me that they do. > > There is no definitive statement in the Bible > making the full knowledge and understanding of the > doctrine of the Trinity as a prerequisite for > salvation or for church membership. > > The largest predominately Black Pentecostal > denomination in America is the Church of God In > Christ, ... and it is my understanding that they > baptize in "Jesus Name Only." > > Isn't that they way new believers were baptized > in the Book of Acts????? > > Our Baptist congregation has held several joint > services with COGIC. > > Some "oneness" groups teach that one must speak > in tongues in order to be saved. IMO, they are in > gross error. > > Jerry > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubs > cribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > > > -- > Bro. Jeff Hallmark > www.sprucelandbaptist.com > http://baptist-potluck.blogspot.com/ > To subscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > >