Mike, As to the lady who is a habitual liar: > 1 John 4:20 20 If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, > he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, > how can he love God whom he has not seen? Unless she has some kind of physical problem - if she cannot be trusted about simple (and visible) things like the sun shining, then she cannot really be trusted about what is not seen. Just my thoughts. Peace, Steve Mike wrote: > Hi Jerry > > To me, a mistake is when the girl at the Wal Mart gives you too much > change and you didn't catch it until yo get home and realize you have > too much money in the pocket. An intentional sin is when you go into > the Wal Mart with the decision made that "I am going to steal a dollar." > > I agree that no christian will be in hell. Hell was made for satan > and his followers. > > > *Revelation 21:8 (KJV) > *^8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and > murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters,*/_ and all > liars_/*, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire > and brimstone: which is the second death. > > I know a lady who goes to a certain church down town. She walked the > aisle, said the sinners prayer, and does most of the right things. > She has a chronic problem of not being able to tell the truth. If she > says the sun is shining, I'll go look for myself. What is your opinion? > > I think this verse is quite clear about liars > > How about someone who has lost or given up his faith. He no longer > has faith in Jesus. Is that the "unbelieving" this verse speaks of ? > > Have a great evening. > > Mike T > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Jerry <mailto:jlew@...> > *To:* pastorsforum@... <mailto:pastorsforum@...> > *Sent:* Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:56 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PastorsForum] need help > > Hey Mike, > > I pretty much agree with what you have written here ..... > > Yet, .... > > If a true christian makes a mistake, or even many mistakes, that > won't send him to hell. None of us are perfect. > > From past experience talking with some "holiness people," .... > they would call "mistakes" their little sins, and call "sins" > those big issues that everyone frowns upon. One brother said he > had not sinned in seven years. After further conversation, he > admitted that he made some "mistakes." > > I do not believe that any Christian will be in hell. Period. If > he is a born-again child of God, and a real Christian, he will be > in heaven, irregardless of whether he makes mistakes or commits a > willful sin. > > In one sense, all sin is willful. A person is tempted, and in a > moment of weakness, he willingly yields to the temptation and > commits the act. I do not think that a persons sins by > accident. Though he may do something that he does not realize is > sinful or displeasing to God. > > I have had deacons, church leaders, and even preachers lie to me > and about me. Do you think they forfeit their salvation when they > knowingly tell a falsehood??? > > What about preachers who misrepresent the doctrines of another > preacher they oppose? Do they lose their salvation when they > publish false information about other men of God???? I believe > that they forfeit the peace of God here on earth but their > eternity in heaven is not affected. > > None of us are perfect. > True. That means tha t none of us are above sin, no matter if we > claim "sanctification" as a second work of grace or not. I do > believe that by walking closely with the Holy Spirit, a man can > live in victory above sin. Through prayer, feeding on the Word of > God, and by trusting in the power of the Holy Spirit within us, a > Christian should be growing in his faith and winning more battles > than he is losing. > > But if that man sins, he is still a Christian and does not lose > his salvation. if he sins big, he does not lose his salvation. I > believe that our salvation is based on the finished work of Christ > and not our performance or our works. > > At the funeral home, while setting up the service, one person was > going to sing "Beulah Land". Another was going to sing "I'll meet > you by the river". A lady asked me if I was going to "preach him > into heaven". > > Did you allow the musicians to do the songs they had chosen??? > > Jerry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Mike <mailto:drmike1@...> > *To:* pastorsforum@... > <mailto:pastorsforum@...> > *Sent:* Thursday, July 05, 2007 7:44 AM > *Subject:* Re: [PastorsForum] need help > > Good morning Bro Jerry > > A person goes to heaven because they trust in Christ and His > sacrifice for the payment of our sin, salvation. > > The catch is that when I trust in Christ, I cannot continue on > living a life of blatent sin and disrespect to God. I must > attempt, through the help of the Holy Spirit, to change my > life. This is sanctification. > > When a person walks the aisle and says the prayer, he is saved > at that moment. If there is no change in that persons life > after that moment, where is the trust? To repent means to > change your mind. If you change your mind, there is a change > in the intentions of the heart. > > If a true christian makes a mistake, or even many mistakes, > that won't send him to hell. None of us are perfect. > > If a person intends to be dishonest with people, if he > intentionally lies, cheats and does things that are not > proper, then that is a willful sin. There is a difference. > Willful sin is not an honest mistake. > > I once had a funeral on the other side of the coin. I was > contacted by a personal friend of a confessed gay athiest, to > do the service. At the funeral home, while setting up the > service, one person was going to sing "Beulah Land". Another > was going to sing "I'll meet you by the river". A lady asked > me if I was going to "preach him into heaven". > > I briefly recounted the earthly history of this mans life, and > then presented a simple message of the gospel of Jesus > Christ. Unless this man repented at the deadly moment of a > heart attack, I could not preach him into heaven. > > Have a great day > > Mike T > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Jerry <mailto:jlew@...> > *To:* PASTORS FORUM <mailto:pastorsforum@...> > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 04, 2007 9:04 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PastorsForum] need help > > So, .... do people die and go to heaven because they live > perfect lives or because they trust in Christ for > salvation???? > > Is the deciding factor in where they spend eternity their > relationship with God based on faith in Christ, ..... or > is it that they committed less sins than the good church > members who do their sinning in private where no one can > see them???? > > Some church people, who have the appearance of everything > being all right, are just pious hypocrites. Some people > who may not be as faithful in their attendance make many > mistakes in their everyday living but are quick to ask God > to forgive them. > > Jerry K's post reminded me of a man I preached a funeral > service for a year and a half ago. He told me that he > knew he had been saved and born again. A deacon and > songleader from his church broke up his marriage. Other > church people encouraged and supported the sinful > arrangement. The pastor of the church refused to counsel > the couple or rebuke the sinful shenaghins. The preacher > told others that he was afraid of a lawsuit. This man was > deeply hurt by religious church people who were living > like devils. The night before he died he told me that he > had been praying. As I preached his sermon, I majored on > the man's testimony to me that he had trusted in Christ > for salvation and how our salvation depends on what Christ > has done for us through His redeeming death on Calvary and > not on what we do for Him. > > Jerry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Krewson" <pastorjerry@... > <mailto:pastorjerry@...>> > To: <pastorsforum@... > <mailto:pastorsforum@...>> > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 8:52 PM > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] need help > > > Steve, > > It is a cool 100% right now, and I hope the neighborhood > kids fireworks stay > > out of the fields. Yahoooo if they get a wheat field. > I'd have to fight the > > bugger. > > > > Yes, easy-believeism is run-a-muck in our land. And my > 3rd paragraph is a > > good example of that. But I surely will not blame > easy-beliveism on all > > Baptist because I witnessed easy believeism by a couple > of Baptist > > preachers. That would be a way to generlization; kinda > like Jimbo's > > statement about "losing your salvation after 'a > misstep.'" I realize Jimbo > > said, "our area." I still stand by my challenge to him > to furnish me names, > > and I will write them personally. > > > > I have been thinking about answering Dan, but you have > taken me off the > > hook. I CAN NOT IMPROVE ON WHAT YOU TOLD HIM. > > MAKE IT a great 4th, evening. > > jerry k > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steven G. Rockhill" <revrock@... > <mailto:revrock@...>> > > To: <pastorsforum@... > <mailto:pastorsforum@...>> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 3:17 PM > > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] need help > > > > > >> Wow!!! The fireworks aren't getting rained out here > tonight are they!! > >> Jerry what you describe in the first 3 paragraphs is > unfortunately the > >> result of the easy-believeism that plagues the church > today --- just > >> because someone came down an aisle when they were 9 > years old and said a > >> prayer does not make them a Christian. Also, to > Jimbo's defense - he did > >> say the churches in "our area" meaning some place in > central PA - where > >> are you, Oregon - it is possible that things are > different in PA then in > >> Oregon. To answer Dan's original question - I think > there is a gross > >> misunderstanding (or perhaps sheer ignorance) today > about the Lord's Day > >> worship and it's purpose. It is not for the > unchurched, it is not for > >> seekers, it is not to be a hollow ritual, it is not a > social club > >> gathering, it is not for entertainment - the Lord's Day > worship is a time > >> where believers gather together and worship the One who > has saved them > >> from sin and death and renew their commitment to Him. > The disneyfication > >> of the church has lead us away from true worship and > renewal. Much which > >> passes itself off as "worship" today is all man focused > and not God > >> focused. > >> > >> Peace, > >> Steve > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubs > cribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubs > cribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Pastor Steven G. Rockhill Lisbon Reformed Presbyterian Church PO Box 88 Lisbon, NY 13658 315-393-9041 revrock@... http://lisbonrpc.port5.com +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++