John, I was born and raised in southern NJ. It used to be a rural suburb of Philly (about 35 mins. from downtown), but now all the orchards are gone and have been replaced with housing developments and shopping centers. The pastor I mentioned certainly had vision. A farmer gave him a few acres of cornfield to build his church and school and wouldn't ya know a few years later that church and school are smack dab in the middle of a housing development. Wow. Steve john okeefe wrote: > steve - > > well, a presby and nj - humm, what part of new jersey > are you from? i went to drew (a united methodist > school) in madison - i turned down that other scholl > in the area - oh, i forget it's name, starts with a > "p" i think - "preson," "prezzleson" - i'm sorry, the > name just won't come to mind :) > > i pastored for a while in washignton (warren county) > and newton (sussex county) - just wondering bro > > pax > jok > > > --- "Steven G. Rockhill" <revrock@...> wrote: > >>I'd like to add one other question: >> >>What if you were IFB (Independent Fundamental(ist) >>Baptist for Brother >>Gilder) at one time but are no longer? Is there any >>hope for you since >>you spurned the 'mother church' so to speak? >> >>On a personal note: after my father came to know the >>Lord (by reading >>the OT of all things - like Timothy 2 Tim. 3:15) he >>pulled us out of the >> other 'mother church' (Roman Catholic) and the >>first church we went to >>was an IFB that was just getting started. Wow what >>a culture shock that >>was - we went from a half-hour long mass service to >>an hour long >>hell-fire and brimstone preaching >>services....yikes!! I was a young >>teenager at the time. I confess to my baptist >>brethren here that my >>siblings and I thought it was all a joke and we used >>to peek to see if >>anyone around us was 'going down the aisle'. We did >>get serious though >>about the 'bring a friend Sunday' competition (which >>our family won >>btw). I wasn't even ashamed to bring my friends >>from school - and many >>heard the gospel, so that was good. I did not come >>to Christ under the >>ministry there, but I certainly learned a lot about >>Christ that I hadn't >>learned growing up catholic. I did have a lot of >>respect for the pastor >>- he said that God gave him a vision to go to NJ and >>build a church and >>school and that is exactly what he did. His wife >>made the grossest pizza >>though. We were a part of the church for about two >>years before we >>reformed our beliefs and became presbyterians. >>Which is where I am >>today. Perhaps being presbyterian is God's >>punishment upon me for >>'peeking' during those altar calls. :-0) >> >>Peace in Christ, >>Steve >> >> >>Brian La Croix wrote: >> >> >>>Okay Guys! >>> >>>I have a number of questions for our IFB brothers, >> >>and I ask these in >> >>>all seriousness. >>> >>>There seems to be an implication, whether >> >>intentional or not, that >> >>>unless you are in line with the doctrines of the >> >>IFB, then your >> >>>salvation is in question. Or at least you will >> >>only "make it" by the >> >>>skin of your teeth, because the grace of God is >> >>able to cover those of >> >>>us who are less than perfect in our doctrine. >>> >>>It is stated a number of ways, generally >> >>like..."Baptist doctrine is >> >>>Bible doctrine..." the implication being that if >> >>you are not a baptist, >> >>>then you are less then biblical. And it seems >> >>that even Southern >> >>>Baptists are less than Biblical, according to this >> >>definition >> >>> >>>Is this what you actually believe? Does one have >> >>to be in agreement >> >>>with IFB doctrine to be a Christian? >>> >>>I want an answer to this, point-blank, with no >> >>dancing around it. And >> >>>if you believe this, I think it is fair to ask for >> >>direct explanations >> >>>as to why that is, and then to tell us just what >> >>someone does need to >> >>>believe to be saved. >>> >>>I admit this comes from a bit of frustration on my >> >>part. I am not a >> >>>Baptist, but have many Baptist brothers, and my >> >>daughter is best friends >> >>>with the daughter of an IFB pastor. Yes, we >> >>disagree on some issues, >> >>>but as far as I know he still thinks I'm saved! >>> >>>My point in this is that I can't believe that >> >>there is any perfect >> >>>theological system. We are fallible men, who are >> >>trying to figure out >> >>>the infallible word of God, and we will fall >> >>short. It just might be >> >>>possible that the Baptists are right on some >> >>issues, and that even us >> >>>poor Wesleyans might be right on some things >> >>(gasp!). >> >>> >>>Yet I get the very distinct impression that our >> >>IFB brothers do not >> >>>agree that they can be wrong. There is little >> >>humility expressed in >> >>>responses to posts, indicating that there seems to >> >>be no room for the >> >>>possibility of any error. >>> >>>So in summary, here is what I want to know: >>> >>>1. Does one need to be an IFB in order to be >> >>saved? >> >>> >>>2. If so, why? >>> >>>3. Is there any chance that you might be wrong in >> >>some of your >> >>>theological conclusions? >>> >>>4. If not, why not? Does God speak only to the >> >>IFB? >> >>> >>>5. Where does this leave the rest of us outside >> >>the IFB camp? >> >>> >>>6. What specifically does someone need to believe >> >>to be saved? >> >>> >>>7. Can one be used of God outside the IFB? >>> >>>8. If not, then what about Billy Graham and John >> >>Wesley? Is it an >> >>>issue of "God did not use them BECAUSE of, but >> >>rather IN SPITE of? >> >>> >>>Please understand this is not an attack or a slam. >> >> This has been on my >> >>>mind since starting this forum back in September. >> >>But this concern has >> >>>grown steadily. >>> >>>I certainly believe that you are my brothers, but >> >>I seriously wonder if >> >>>you think I am one of yours? And not just me, but >> >>even our Southern >> >>>Baptist brothers? >>> >>>Anything you can do to answer my concerns would be >> >>appreciated! >> >>> >>>Thanks! >>> >>>Brian >>> >>> >>> >> >>____________________________________________________ >> > <http://www.incredimail.com/redir.asp?ad_id=309&lang=9> > >> IncrediMail - >> >>>Email has finally evolved - Click Here >>> >> > <http://www.incredimail.com/redir.asp?ad_id=309&lang=9> > >>-- >> > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >>Pastor Steven G. Rockhill >>Lisbon Reformed Presbyterian Church >>PO Box 88 >>Lisbon, NY 13658 >>315-393-9041 >>revrock@... >> > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >> >> >> >>-- >>To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: >>pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >> >>"In essential things, unity; in non-essential >>things, liberty; and in all things, charity." >> > > > > ===== > john o'keefe > http://www.ginkworld.net > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in all things, charity." > > -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Pastor Steven G. Rockhill Lisbon Reformed Presbyterian Church PO Box 88 Lisbon, NY 13658 315-393-9041 revrock@... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++