iggy, ok, let me see if i can expalin this without causing pastor hughes to have a stroke :) - kidding by the way :) i belive, and most in the postmodern conversation would agree with me, that "right" and "wrong" are defined by culture - not let me explain: i am a christian (some may doubt that - but oh well :) ) i believe in what i see as "truths" and "rights" in the bible - others, who are not christian do not see the same "truths" and "rights" - do i think they are "wrong" for not seeing my truths? yes, but that does not make them "WRONG" - it just means i believe they are "wrong" and it may mean that i even believe they are "very wrong" - but they have the exact same feeling as i do about them, about me - they believe i am "wrong." if you wanted to join my tribe - that portion of the community that i call home - you would need to believe in the cultural truths we have - if not, you could not join. for example, one of those "truths" we hold to is that jesus is God in flesh. if you did not believe that you could not become a "member" of our tribe - you could come and join in the activities and get involved as deep as you liked - but you could not join and be called a "tribal member." another example is that we allow drinking - in fact we may even have a wine tasting ministry. now, if you felt that a "truth" of the bible was that drinking wine was "wrong" you could not join our tribe - you could join in all the activites, but you could never join - and you would not be allowed to teach that drinking wine was "wrong." because as a tribe we have determined that drinking wine was "right" - if you felt that it was centeral that no drinking wine was allowed, we would help you find a tribe where your "truth" and their "truth" matched - and you would be at home in that tribe :) now, i could fight them - but that just makes people hold their ground. it is impossible to "convert" a person by insulting there beliefes - history has proven that. i could tell them because they do not agree with me i can not assoicaite with them, but then again they woudl think the same way - or i could befriend them in an honest and open manner - to want to be their friend because i liked them - not because i wanted to convert them. pax jok --- iggy <iggy@...> wrote: > If your view is "no one is right", > Can anyone be wrong? > > Correct me if I am wrongly representing your view. > > Just trying to wrapa linear thought around your non- > linear > theology. > > Going out to do some stretches to be more flexible, > > iggy > > -------Original Message------- > > From: pastorsforum@... > Date: 02/10/04 15:21:29 > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] views doctrine > > iggy, > > you wrote: "I choose only to be engulf in Jesus > Christ crucified for me." > > RE: cool - you have now fiven yourself a lable :) > > you asked: "Where are you more flexible that me?" > > RE: i do not think i ever said that i was "more" > flexible then you. i happen to think you are wrong > in > some of your points, but that does not make me "less > flexible" then you - if you read my posts you will > know where i stand - and that i have said over and > over that people can have differing points of view > on > all points of faith - and all is good. > > i have what is called by some a "open source" > theology > - where differing points of view are welcomed and > the > tension is open - i may come from a postmodern > vonversation view - but that has little to do with > my > teachers and more to do with the way God wired me :) > i can not think like a fundy, or an evangelical, or > a > conserative - nothing they say clicks with me - i do > not think linier, i think non-linier. systematic > theology does not cut it for me because i find too > many loop-holes and not enough answers - i am not > "postmodern" by choice - i am by birth. > > so, the reason my message is consistanly postmodern > is > because that is how i think - it is my wiring - the > way God made me :) i make no excuses for it, and i > am > very comfortable in the skin God gave me :) as for > my > teachers - i thank them for giving me the words to > express myself - they did not create me, they simply > allowed me the opportunity to express who i was > created to be. > > if in that you find me "unflexabile" so be it - you > are the first person ever who has said i was > "unflexable" - in fact, most have accused me of > being > too flexible and allowing all different kinds of > people into the church - go figure :) > > you wrote: "don't take anything I said as an attack > agianst your faith.... We are discussing "views" not > salvation." > > RE: i take nothing you say as an attack - but if > you > have to qulaify the statement with a "this is not an > attack" well, maybe it is> :) kidding :) i am a big > boy and very sure of my faith, my walk, my salvation > and my point of view - very secure - so, there is > very > little you can say or do that will cause me to shift > :) > > pax > jok > > > --- iggy <iggy@...> wrote: > > You choose to not chose. > > To quote the great theologian, Neil Pert, > > "Even if you have not made a choice, you have just > > made a choice." > > > > I see you as locked into the thoughts of your > > teachers and have chosen a > > view. > > That is fine. I have my view also. > > I choose to forsake much I was initially taught > > (works salvation) > > and relearn by letting the Holy Spirit guide me as > I > > study the Bible. > > I interpet it in these criteria > > > > A. Historically > > Then who what where when why. > > B. Personal application > > Again running it through whom what where when why. > > C. Commentaries and teachers. > > I filter their thought through what I have > studied. > > Yet I remain open to God in many different ways. > > > > Yes, I have a type of system of study, Yet, God > is > > bigger than my system. > > I view God as a constant. the eternal Now. > > God is. > > I say Jesus is the only way. And yes I am locked > > into that. > > I say God is God and I am not...Again locked in. > > I say Jesus is the only way to Heaven.. Yep! > > I live because He lives...yep!!! > > > > These things are my core. My preference's do taint > > but I try to pick and > > choose the real important ones. > > > > I have said it before. If my doctrine stands in > > between Jesus and someone > > else. Then I have a problem. > > > > I think this is pretty flexiable. > > > > You chose to enter into discussion as "engulfed" > in > > pomo/emerg thought. You > > accepted and labeled youself. I have fought and > > spoken against any labels. > > Even engulfing is a submergence into something. > > I choose only to be engulf in Jesus Christ > crucified > > for me. > > Where are you more flexible that me? > > don't take anything I said as an attack agianst > your > > faith.... > > We are discussing "views" not salvation. > > > > iggy > > > > -------Original Message------- > > > > From: pastorsforum@... > > Date: 02/10/04 08:57:20 > > To: pastorsforum@... > > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Divorced Pastors > > > > iggy, > > > > i am confused - how do you see my view as "being > > locked in?" in fact, if you read my views you > will > > find that culture defines a great many things - > and > > is > > not "locked in" to anything - ? i am confused how > > my > > view is locked in - with a reality of flexibility > - > > whaile yours is not - with it's "this is the only > > way" > > reality? > > > > and i am not "entrenched" i am "engulfed" - there > is > > a > > difference :) > > > > pax > > jok > > > > > ===== > john o'keefe > http://www.ginkworld.net > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing > online. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > > -- > To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > "In essential things, unity; in non-essential > things, liberty; and in all > things, charity." > > ===== john o'keefe http://www.ginkworld.net __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html