Welcome to the forum Randy!
Good to have you chime in.
Jimbo
----- Original Message -----
From: <shieldwolf@...>
To: <pastorsforum@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Do You
Believe God is Sovereign?
Hi
This is Randy. I'm a once Baptist now
Lutheran. Nice to be here.
I think much of the talk about God being
Sovereign or not is basically
semantic. God has clearly limited
Himself in the Christ Event. Such is
clear from Philippians 2. It is not out
of the question, and I even
believe a case can be built to where God
often limits Himself from acting,
and yet in spite of this apparent
contradiction, He works all things
together for the good of those who love
him. He is Amazing.
I believe the most dangerous part comes
when we who have finite minds and
limitations try too hard to fathom the
depths of the infinite and "put it
all together" in a nice, neat little
system. It's OK to allow the infinite
some mystery...unless you have infinite
understanding, but St Paul says
something about viewing reality through
a "dark glass." :)
We all have our boxes into which we try
and stuff God. Surprise, surprise,
surprise, He continues to pop those
open.
Go figure.
Blessed Easter,
Randy
Lay Minister Christ Lutheran Church
Lansing,MI
> Jerry,
>
> Again, you have developed a God you
> call Sovereign but you cannot think of
> one area where he is Sovereign. Yes,
> God has commands that we disobey.
> Yet
> to say that this is outside of God's
> Sovereignty is wrong. Again, argue
> with Joseph who said, "What man meant
> for evil, God meant for good."
>
> Name an area where God is Sovereign?
> You guys do not believe in God's
> Sovereignty, you believe in man's.
>
> Derick
>
> On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 3:43 PM, Jerry
> Krewson
> <pastorjerry@...>
> wrote:
>
>> *Doc,*
>> *Interestingly, you knew which
>> question I was referring to. *
>> **
>> *In Gen. 2:17, God says, "...thou
>> shalt NOT eat...." God's Sovereign
>> will
>> was that they should not eat of....
>> They did eat in spite of God's
>> Sovereign
>> will. Now that infers they had a
>> choice. Or am I to believe that God
>> really
>> did NOT mean it; He was only playing
>> with them when He told them 'not
>> eat of
>> it?' *
>> **
>> *It seems to me, Derick has developed
>> a sycophantic God who says, "In my
>> Sovereignty I tell you, 'don't eat',
>> yet I know you will." Now God
>> either
>> allowed them to eat, even though He
>> told them not to [choice], or He
>> told
>> them not to, and in His Sovereignty
>> he made them eat [sycophantic]. *
>> **
>> *The only rational, biblical
>> explanation is, God is Sovereign, and
>> because
>> He is not one bit intimidated by
>> giving man free will, He remains
>> Sovereign.
>> A Sovereign God has every right to
>> give free will if He is Sovereign. To
>> say
>> that He can't give man choice is to
>> TAKE AWAY THE SOVEREIGNTY of God.
>> The
>> Sovereignty of God means He CAN DO
>> ANYTHING He wants, in spite of
>> Derick's
>> objects with God to give man choice,
>> based on God's Sovereign will to do
>> so. *
>>
>> *Makes perfect sense to me. But then,
>> to our brother, Derick, whatever
>> we
>> say is not a defense of God's
>> Sovereignty. I just gave one,*
>> *thought simplistic at best. *
>> **
>> *Derick's God is soooo Sovereign that
>> He has developed a God that CAN
>> NOT
>> DO SOMETHING. Give man choice. *
>> *MY God can do anything He wishes.
>> And that includes giving free
>> will--that is how sovereign my God
>> is.*
>> **
>> *I do really have to Go.*
>> **
>> *Doc, may the Lord bless you and keep
>> you.*
>> *jerry k*
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Dpowellaz2@...
>> *To:* pastorsforum@...
>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 22, 2008 9:10
>> AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [PastorsForum] Do You
>> Believe God is Sovereign?
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 3/22/2008 9:56:42
>> A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
>> derickdickens@... writes:
>>
>> Jerry K,
>>
>> Which question?
>>
>> Derick
>>
>> Within your concept of sovereignty,
>> was that man here in Phoenix who
>> sodomized an 8 month old infant was
>> caused to do so by God! I am sorry
>> but
>> that does not fit in a Biblical view
>> of God's sovereignty!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 1:34 PM,
>> Jerry Krewson
>> <pastorjerry@...>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > *Derick,*
>> > *With you concept of God's
>> > Sovereignty: Please answer Doc's
>> > question.
>> > With your concept of God's
>> > sovereignty, I am very interested
>> > in your
>> answer.
>> > It is a legitamate question--in the
>> > debate of Sovereignty.*
>> > **
>> > *jerry k*
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > *From:* Derick Dickens
>> > <derickdickens@...>
>> > *To:* pastorsforum@...
>> > *Sent:* Saturday, March 22, 2008
>> > 7:15 AM
>> > *Subject:* Re: [PastorsForum] Do
>> > You Believe God is Sovereign?
>> >
>> > Doc,
>> >
>> > It is old. You say God is
>> > Sovereign but he cannot control all
>> > things.
>> > Very old and not what is ever meant
>> > by Sovereignty.
>> >
>> > Derick
>> >
>> > On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 12:13 PM,
>> > <Dpowellaz2@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > > In a message dated 3/22/2008
>> > > 7:51:27 A.M. US Mountain Standard
>> Time,
>> > > derickdickens@... writes:
>> > >
>> > > Doc,
>> > >
>> > > I love that you are trying to
>> > > attack God's Sovereignty. I have
>> quoted
>> > > Genesis 50:20 before and I
>> > > believe the "injustices" you say
>> > > still
>> does not
>> > > deny is Sovereignty or goodness.
>> > > The question is, "Does God
>> > > control
>> all
>> > > things?" You believe God is
>> > > subject to man, whether in his
>> "foreknowledge"
>> > > or in real time according to your
>> > > definition. If your definition
>> > > of
>> > > foreknowledge is correct, then
>> > > God is reactionary and therefore
>> > > not
>> > > Sovereign. If I am correct, God
>> > > is the one who controls.
>> > >
>> > > HE IS Sovereign.
>> > >
>> > > Derick
>> > >
>> > > Derick what must I do to get you
>> > > to stop putting your
>> > > understanding
>> > > of my position onto my position.
>> > > I have never attacked God's
>> sovereignty
>> > > but have put it in the highest
>> > > regard. The question is not
>> > > "Does
>> God
>> > > control all things" but does God,
>> > > in His sovereignty, allow men to
>> make
>> > > choices to be obedient or
>> > > disobedient within the context of
>> > > His
>> > > sovereignty. Again, by your
>> > > definition you say I believe God
>> > > is
>> subject to
>> > > man. This is getting old! I do
>> > > not believe what you categorize
>> > > me
>> to
>> > > believe. You seem to have
>> > > difficulty understanding
>> > > positions that
>> are
>> > > opposed to yours! God, is not
>> > > subject to any, He is not
>> > > reactionary
>> to
>> > > anything and He is sovereign.
>> > > Within your concept of
>> > > sovereignty,
>> that man
>> > > here in Phoenix who sodomized an
>> > > 8 month old infant was caused to
>> > > do
>> so by
>> > > God! I am sorry but that does
>> > > not fit in a Biblical view of
>> > > God's
>> > > sovereignty!
>> > > Doc
>> > >
>> >
>> *Shalom Alechem...Barukh Hashem
>> Y'shua!*
>> (*Peace and Blessings in Jesus'
>> name!*)
>> Pastor Dr. David Powell
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Create a Home Theater Like the Pros.
>> Watch the video on AOL
>> Home<http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001>
>> .
>>
>> To subscribe, send a message to:
>> pastorsforum-join@...
>>
>> To unsubs
>> cribe, send a message to:
>> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>>
>>
>>
>> To subscribe, send a message to:
>> pastorsforum-join@...
>>
>> To unsubs
>> cribe, send a message to:
>> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Derick R. Dickens
> www.thedickensfamily.org
> dateswithdad.blogspot.com
> acrossthekingdom.blogspot.com
>
> To subscribe, send a message to:
> pastorsforum-join@...
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to:
> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
>
To subscribe, send a message to:
pastorsforum-join@...
To unsubscribe, send a message to:
pastorsforum-unsubscribe@...
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database:
269.21.8/1338 - Release Date: 3/21/2008
5:52 PM