Good focus. Well said, Gary. I remember "winning" many arguments with pagans...and really turning them off to Christianity. Blessings, Randy > Is the objective of participation on pastorforum to win arguments with > other pastors? If so, there is a reward and a satisfying sense of pride > in having conquered the inferior one. I'm just getting old enough to > realize that most people are far less impressed with my words than I am. > My reward is when I hear someone using my words without even quoting me. > It means that they didn't even notice any influence of the Lord coming > through me. They just followed Him. That's good enough, isn't it? > > If we gloat over the fact that someone else is wrong, it doesn't mean that > we are right. First of all, we may both be wrong regarding the facts. > Secondly, I may be wrong in my spirit, even when I'm right in the facts. > It's time to stop searching the world for sinners to condemn. All we need > to do is look in the mirror. Maybe there, if we look long and hard, we > will learn mercy. > > > GARY WEBB > > > From: Derick Dickens > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 8:55 AM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] The Root Problem of the Church? > > > David, > > Ignorance is a properly defined word in which you do not know something > you are talking about. When someone continues to make claims that are > wrong... SBC Founders did not believe in creeds, my arguments are mere > semantics rather than historic, etc... that is based upon ignorance... > that I put creeds above the Bible... is based upon ignorance whether > willfully or not. I have often stated I am ignorant in topics and I use > that of myself and my wife and I use the word as a part of daily > conversation. "Honey, I do not know that because I am ignorant of the > debate", or "Honey, why don't you ask your homeschool friends because I am > ignorant of what to do." A perfectly good word. > > The fact is, Doc is ignorant on this topic we are discussing. He tried to > pull rank by saying he had a doctorate in history, but he is still > ignorant. > > I do not mean to come across as mean spirited. It is difficult when > someone keeps stereotyping my belief as putting documents before the > Bible, when I have been the greatest advocate of expository preaching, > exegetical work, and the like. To me, that is just a stereotype that has > to give. > > Calling someone ignorant is not mean spirited. It is factual. He claimed > something, I recounted. He attacked an historic form of an argument as my > being semantical, but that is the definition as historically defined. I > > Derick > > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 9:23 AM, Dr David Benton <dbenton@...> > wrote: > > Derick why don't you read some of your posts! They sure seem mean > spirited, is that the way we are to conduct ourselves? There are many > people who are members that read all the posts. What are we > accomplishing by calling someone ignorant? > David > -----Original Message----- > From: Derick Dickens [mailto:derickdickens@...] > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 8:43 AM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] The Root Problem of the Church? > Importance: Low > > > Jerry K., > > To each his own. This is a debate and I find it awkward that even when > Doc is proven he is wrong, he never admits it but changes the subject. > First, he said that SBCers founders did not believe in Creeds. I > pointed out he was wrong by citing material. Then he said that he > just believes the Bible, and I showed him how that is still a creed. > Then he said I was playing semantics and that I should stop citing > historic data rather than the Bible, despite the fact that he made a > claim that required the citation of historic data (no SBC founder held > to creed). I finally countered by saying that he was simply ignorant > of the historic data and ignorant of the discussing he was engaging > because it is not mere semantics but the issue as discussed through > the centuries. I might be arrogant. That is all possible. Yet, Doc > does have his head in the sand and refuses to admit he is wrong on > this topic. At least when I posted something on this topic where I > was wrong, I admitted to it. > > > > Derick > > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 4:21 AM, Jerry Krewson > <pastorjerry@...> wrote: > > Derick > You are sure arguing hard for the ignorance of a man. Why keep at > it. Let it go. Ok, so Doc is ignorant; you are arrogant. I will back > up my statement about your arrogance. I time pointing out a fellow > Christians ignorance, ok. 2nd times, prideful, 3rd time, arrogant, > 4th time, bordering on get the log out of your own eye. > > jerry k > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Derick Dickens > To: pastorsforum@... > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 8:08 PM > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] The Root Problem of the Church? > > > Randy, > > Ignorance is that he does not know something. For him to not know > the founders of the SBC were creedal when they wrote books is > ignorant. For him to not know their very arguments is ignorant. > That was the context. He can disagree but his statements about > our history then attacking me for citing history to disprove him, > is crazy... but it also shows his ignorance of the topic. > > Derick > > > On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 12:06 AM, <shieldwolf@...> wrote: > > Derick, that's not fair. Doc's not ignorant, he is choosing to > disagree. > > I like doc and I like you. Sometimes I agree with one or the > other, > sometimes neither. This I can say: Neither of you is ignorant > from what > I've seen. Now, you both seem stubborn, but...um, I kinda am > too. > > Blessings, > Randy > > > > Again, Doc, I am using arguments from Baptists of Old. I am > not playing > > semantics, you just are ignorant of what we mean. > > > > Derick > > > > On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 8:52 PM, <Dpowellaz2@...> wrote: > > > >> In a message dated 4/13/2008 5:37:49 P.M. US Mountain > Standard Time, > >> derickdickens@... writes: > >> > >> Doc, > >> > >> I am not playing Semantics, if you read what Southern Baptist > founders > >> said about creeds, you will have to agree with me. If you > read the > >> Philadelphia Baptist Association, they agree with me. This > is not > >> Semantics > >> but your stereotyping what we believe. > >> > >> You do have a creed in what you want people to hold to or not > hold to in > >> order to be a Baptist. That has always been creedal. You > many not like > >> a > >> creed a certain group holds onto then you do not have to > belong to that > >> group. The idea that to be a Southern Baptist Missionary you > must hold > >> to > >> the Baptist Faith and Message. To be a professor at SBTS, > you have to > >> hold > >> to the Abstract Principles. > >> > >> Doc, I would encourage you to actually read what Baptists > have written > >> about creeds for those who hold to it. The argument I used > was directly > >> from some of the citations of Southern Baptists. Everyone is > creedal. > >> The > >> issue is what creed you hold onto. > >> > >> This is not semantics, this argument is taken from some of > what other > >> SBCers have said in history. We are all creedal or else we > are not > >> Christian. You may not like my creeds but you still have > creeds. > >> > >> Derick > >> > >> Sorry Derick but yes you are playing semantics. > >> Doc > >> > >> *Shalom Alechem...Barukh Hashem Y'shua!* > >> (*Peace and Blessings in Jesus' name!*) > >> Pastor Dr. David Powell > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & > > >> Finance<http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolcmp00300000002850> > > >> . > >> > >> To subscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-join@... > >> > >> To unsubs > >> cribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Derick R. Dickens > > www.thedickensfamily.org > > http://verseuponverse.blogspot.com > > http://dateswithdad.blogspot.com > > http://acrossthekingdom.blogspot.com > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-join@... > > > > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... > > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: > pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > -- > Derick R. Dickens > www.thedickensfamily.org > http://verseuponverse.blogspot.com > http://dateswithdad.blogspot.com > http://acrossthekingdom.blogspot.com > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubs > cribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > > > -- > Derick R. Dickens > www.thedickensfamily.org > http://verseuponverse.blogspot.com > http://dateswithdad.blogspot.com > http://acrossthekingdom.blogspot.com > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubs > cribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > > > -- > Derick R. Dickens > www.thedickensfamily.org > http://verseuponverse.blogspot.com > http://dateswithdad.blogspot.com > http://acrossthekingdom.blogspot.com > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.13/1377 - Release Date: > 4/14/2008 9:26 AM > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > >