No, that's not what I said. What I said is "Water + Word" While I know before I add this that you will disagree (and that is fine) because you are of the "Enlightenment" branch of Christianity and I am from the "Age of Faith" branch, I include this from the Explanation to the Small Catechism: What is Baptism? Baptism is not just plain water, but it is the water included in God's command and combined with God's word. Which is that word of God? Christ our Lord says in the last chapter of Matthew: "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." [Matt. 28:19]. How can water do such great things? Certainly not just water, but the word of God in and with the water does these things, along with the faith which trusts this word of God in the water. For without God's word the water is plain water and no Baptism. But with the word of God it is a Baptism, that is, a life-giving water, rich in grace, and a washing of the new birth in the Holy Spirit, as St. Paul says in Titus chapter three: "He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by His grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. This is a trustworthy saying." [Titus 3:5-81 Remember, the key question for Baptism: Is it an Act of Man, or is it an Act of God? How you answer that determines how you view it. Blessings, Randy > So, .... faith comes from water now???? is that what you are saying? ... > the > word is not enough so it takes water plus the word of God??? > > What is it about water that causes a person to trust God? > > Show me an example of someone getting saved by getting wet without the > gospel > > Jerry > "The Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they . were > astonished . because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of > the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God" > (Acts 10:44-46). > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <shieldwolf@...> > To: <pastorsforum@...> > Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:55 AM > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Does God have to offer an opportunity for all? > > >> It is not water only, but water plus the Word of God that works faith. >> >> Luther's Catechism is available online if you need one. ;) >> >> Blessings, >> Randy >> >> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >> >> To unsubscribe, send a message to: >> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >> > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > >