Try preaching "the lectionary." That can really be challenging at times. :) Blessings, Randy > Method is not the point. Content, source, and purpose is the point. > Expository preaching allows a great variety, but the subject matter is > essentially a revelation of God to man, not a self-help book. The kinds > of sermons I'm talking about are not exegetical applications of God's > Word. They are an attempt to tell people what they want to hear about and > using the Bible (often out of context) to make the points. Often, you > could find the same stuff in a book by secular psychologists, marriage > counselors, financial consultants, leadership teachers, talk show hosts, > etc. It's interesting trivia, but I can't pretend that it's what God > called me to do. > > > GARY WEBB > > > From: shieldwolf@... > Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 11:45 AM > To: pastorsforum@... > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Baptist Stigma > > > I found it very hilarious that very little of the "preaching" found in > scripture is "Expository." By far the bulk of it (including the Epistles, > themselves) is actually topical---addressing a particular situation, and > most of what Jesus did was parabolic---He told stories! Additionally, > when I went back and read the verse in the OT about "Precept upon > precept," I about fell off my chair---the author meant that as a slam to > those to whom he was writing. It was a negative, not a positive as they > were going "bit by bit" and yet missing the point entirely. > > I agree with Jerry on this. Let us not argue method. > > Blessings, > Randy > >> Gary, >> >> >> >>>>>> For one thing, they probably seldom ever have an expository message. >>>>>> In fact, most messages probably have little to do with explaining or >>>>>> applying truth about the nature, character, and works of God. >> >> >> >> You make a foolish assumption and generalization about preaching methods >> here. There is no proof that expository preaching is any more Biblical >> or >> faithful to the Scriptures than topical preaching, or other methods of >> preaching. What you state as fact is not established truth, rather, it >> is >> an opinion based on subjective feelings. >> >> >> >> "Expository" is a term that addresses a particular METHOD of preaching, >> and NOT the CONTENT of the message delivered. >> >> >> >> I have heard some expositional preaching that was pure malarkey. The >> speakers had very little Bible knowledge and practically no spiritual >> understanding. Their remarks were full of imagination and wild >> wanderings. >> >> >> >>>>>> Instead, they will tend toward being focused on "felt needs" like >>>>>> friendship, family, finances, career, intimacy or communication in >>>>>> marriage, self-esteem, success, overcoming bad habits, and lots of >>>>>> other "how to" messages that have little to do with a relationship >>>>>> with God. >> >> >> >> What you term "felt needs" are very real issues to people. They want to >> know what God thinks about the challenges they face in life and how to >> trust God to help them. >> >> >> >> The relationship we have with God is that of a child to his Father. God >> is our "Father" and He will take a Father's part in providing love, >> care, >> and protection for His children. >> >> >> >>>>> Doctrinal truth is avoided because it isn't attractive to the masses >> >> >> >> Nonsense. The majority of my preaching is topical and I fill it with >> abundant doctrinal content. So do many, many other preachers. I am a >> "pastor/teacher," . not just a "preacher." >> >> >> >>>>>> Words like "Community Church" or "Christian Fellowship" are more >>>>>> inclusive and less intimidating to those who might feel >>>>>> uncomfortable >>>>>> listening to people who are convinced that they are right about >>>>>> something. >> >> >> >> These names are very effective and descriptive. If our ministry is >> outreach in a community, we should seek to reach people without >> alienating >> them with religious names that stigmatize. >> >> >> >>>>> Do what God is calling you to do. >> >> >> >> Amen!!! And we should add to that, "Don't criticize those who are led >> to >> do things a different way than we are led!" >> >> >> >> Jerry >> >> "Therefore they stayed there a long time, speaking boldly in the Lord, >> who >> was bearing witness to the word of His grace, granting signs and wonders >> to be done by their hands" (Acts 14:3). >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Gary Webb >> To: pastorsforum@... >> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 10:25 PM >> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Baptist Stigma >> >> >> If this church follows the pattern of so many others, there are some >> other things that have changed as well. For one thing, they probably >> seldom ever have an expository message. In fact, most messages probably >> have little to do with explaining or applying truth about the nature, >> character, and works of God. Instead, they will tend toward being >> focused on "felt needs" like friendship, family, finances, career, >> intimacy or communication in marriage, self-esteem, success, overcoming >> bad habits, and lots of other "how to" messages that have little to do >> with a relationship with God. The solutions given will be those which >> would work equally well for a lost man as for a child of God. Doctrinal >> truth is avoided because it isn't attractive to the masses (translated >> "it won't grow the church"). Generally, the messages will be as upbeat >> as the music, with only "positive" themes. The objective is to be sure >> everyone leaves feeling better than they came. >> >> This trend, and line of thought, isn't just present in Baptist >> circles. >> Nazarenes, Methodists, Presbyterians, Pentecostals and others have >> discovered that these "labels" turn people off because they seem to >> express conviction about their distinctive beliefs. Words like >> "Community Church" or "Christian Fellowship" are more inclusive and less >> intimidating to those who might feel uncomfortable listening to people >> who are convinced that they are right about something. >> >> Some of the methods, such as home cells, are solidly New Testament. >> An >> emphasis on worship during the "worship service" is refreshing. Styles >> of music do appeal to various segments of the population. I know of a >> church that is doing quite well with what they call Southern >> Contemporary music. It's basically modern country music with Christian >> words. I wouldn't get too caught up in the styles and methods though. >> I also wouldn't make a decision to conform to what another church is >> doing just because they are experiencing numerical growth. Do what God >> is calling you to do. When it comes to church, the most important >> measure isn't the number of pews or the number of behinds sitting on >> them. The issue is love. Do these folks love one another? Do they >> love their neighbors? Do they love the Lord? Do you experience a sense >> of family love among them when they gather? Remember, there are big >> families and small ones. There are large dysfunctional families and >> also small ones? There are some large churches with an even bigger >> heart about them. And then again, there are some large churches that >> are just well-managed religious entertainment enterprises. There are >> small churches who stay small because their hearts are too small to even >> love one another, let alone love just one more. When a church becomes a >> loving spiritual family where Christ is all and in all, then He is being >> glorified. A church like that is in danger of becoming a large church >> because it is already a great one. >> >> >> GARY WEBB >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> >> From: Jerry >> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 4:31 PM >> To: PASTORS FORUM >> Subject: [PastorsForum] Baptist Stigma >> >> >> Gentlemen, >> >> I had a middle-aged couple visit our church last night. They left the >> church they had been members of because of several changes that were >> made. >> >> One major change was a name change for the church. They dropped the >> word >> "Baptist" from the church's name. It was stated that there was a >> "stigma" with the name "Baptist," and that some people would not attend >> if the name "Baptist" was on the sign. They wanted outreach to the >> people in the community. >> >> Do you agree or disagree that there is a "stigma" associated with the >> name "Baptist"? >> >> The church also changed their worship style from "Blended" to praise >> and >> worship with a praise band supplying the instrumental music for worship. >> >> Instead of having a Sunday evening worship service, they have multiple >> home-group cell meetings in people's homes. >> >> Attendance at this church dropped for a bit, but now it has grown >> considerably. >> >> BTW, my wife and I were members of this church years ago. >> >> Jerry >> "Therefore they stayed there a long time, speaking boldly in the Lord, >> who was bearing witness to the word of His grace, granting signs and >> wonders to be done by their hands" (Acts 14:3). >> >> >> = >> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >> >> To unsubs= >> cribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >> >> >> >> = >> >> = >> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >> >> To unsubs= >> cribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >> >> >> >> = >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.21/1456 - Release Date: >> 5/20/2008 6:45 AM >> >> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >> >> To unsubscribe, send a message to: >> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >> >> > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > >