Yer so silly. :) Blessings, Randy >>>>>>>>> Try preaching "the lectionary." That can really be challenging >>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>> times. :) > > Aren't we supposed to preach "the Bible"??? :-) :-) :-) > > Jerry > "Therefore they stayed there a long time, speaking boldly in the Lord, who > was bearing witness to the word of His grace, granting signs and wonders > to > be done by their hands" (Acts 14:3). > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <shieldwolf@...> > To: <pastorsforum@...> > Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 9:29 AM > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Baptist Stigma > > >> Try preaching "the lectionary." That can really be challenging at >> times. >> :) >> >> Blessings, >> Randy >> >>> Method is not the point. Content, source, and purpose is the point. >>> Expository preaching allows a great variety, but the subject matter is >>> essentially a revelation of God to man, not a self-help book. The >>> kinds >>> of sermons I'm talking about are not exegetical applications of God's >>> Word. They are an attempt to tell people what they want to hear about >>> and >>> using the Bible (often out of context) to make the points. Often, you >>> could find the same stuff in a book by secular psychologists, marriage >>> counselors, financial consultants, leadership teachers, talk show >>> hosts, >>> etc. It's interesting trivia, but I can't pretend that it's what God >>> called me to do. >>> >>> >>> GARY WEBB >>> >>> >>> From: shieldwolf@... >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 11:45 AM >>> To: pastorsforum@... >>> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Baptist Stigma >>> >>> >>> I found it very hilarious that very little of the "preaching" found in >>> scripture is "Expository." By far the bulk of it (including the >>> Epistles, >>> themselves) is actually topical---addressing a particular situation, >>> and >>> most of what Jesus did was parabolic---He told stories! Additionally, >>> when I went back and read the verse in the OT about "Precept upon >>> precept," I about fell off my chair---the author meant that as a slam >>> to >>> those to whom he was writing. It was a negative, not a positive as >>> they >>> were going "bit by bit" and yet missing the point entirely. >>> >>> I agree with Jerry on this. Let us not argue method. >>> >>> Blessings, >>> Randy >>> >>>> Gary, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> For one thing, they probably seldom ever have an expository >>>>>>>> message. >>>>>>>> In fact, most messages probably have little to do with explaining >>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> applying truth about the nature, character, and works of God. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> You make a foolish assumption and generalization about preaching >>>> methods >>>> here. There is no proof that expository preaching is any more >>>> Biblical >>>> or >>>> faithful to the Scriptures than topical preaching, or other methods of >>>> preaching. What you state as fact is not established truth, rather, it >>>> is >>>> an opinion based on subjective feelings. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> "Expository" is a term that addresses a particular METHOD of >>>> preaching, >>>> and NOT the CONTENT of the message delivered. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I have heard some expositional preaching that was pure malarkey. The >>>> speakers had very little Bible knowledge and practically no spiritual >>>> understanding. Their remarks were full of imagination and wild >>>> wanderings. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> Instead, they will tend toward being focused on "felt needs" like >>>>>>>> friendship, family, finances, career, intimacy or communication in >>>>>>>> marriage, self-esteem, success, overcoming bad habits, and lots of >>>>>>>> other "how to" messages that have little to do with a relationship >>>>>>>> with God. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> What you term "felt needs" are very real issues to people. They want >>>> to >>>> know what God thinks about the challenges they face in life and how to >>>> trust God to help them. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The relationship we have with God is that of a child to his Father. >>>> God >>>> is our "Father" and He will take a Father's part in providing love, >>>> care, >>>> and protection for His children. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Doctrinal truth is avoided because it isn't attractive to the >>>>>>> masses >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Nonsense. The majority of my preaching is topical and I fill it with >>>> abundant doctrinal content. So do many, many other preachers. I am a >>>> "pastor/teacher," . not just a "preacher." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> Words like "Community Church" or "Christian Fellowship" are more >>>>>>>> inclusive and less intimidating to those who might feel >>>>>>>> uncomfortable >>>>>>>> listening to people who are convinced that they are right about >>>>>>>> something. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> These names are very effective and descriptive. If our ministry is >>>> outreach in a community, we should seek to reach people without >>>> alienating >>>> them with religious names that stigmatize. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> Do what God is calling you to do. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Amen!!! And we should add to that, "Don't criticize those who are led >>>> to >>>> do things a different way than we are led!" >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jerry >>>> >>>> "Therefore they stayed there a long time, speaking boldly in the Lord, >>>> who >>>> was bearing witness to the word of His grace, granting signs and >>>> wonders >>>> to be done by their hands" (Acts 14:3). >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Gary Webb >>>> To: pastorsforum@... >>>> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 10:25 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Baptist Stigma >>>> >>>> >>>> If this church follows the pattern of so many others, there are some >>>> other things that have changed as well. For one thing, they probably >>>> seldom ever have an expository message. In fact, most messages >>>> probably >>>> have little to do with explaining or applying truth about the nature, >>>> character, and works of God. Instead, they will tend toward being >>>> focused on "felt needs" like friendship, family, finances, career, >>>> intimacy or communication in marriage, self-esteem, success, >>>> overcoming >>>> bad habits, and lots of other "how to" messages that have little to do >>>> with a relationship with God. The solutions given will be those which >>>> would work equally well for a lost man as for a child of God. >>>> Doctrinal >>>> truth is avoided because it isn't attractive to the masses (translated >>>> "it won't grow the church"). Generally, the messages will be as >>>> upbeat >>>> as the music, with only "positive" themes. The objective is to be >>>> sure >>>> everyone leaves feeling better than they came. >>>> >>>> This trend, and line of thought, isn't just present in Baptist >>>> circles. >>>> Nazarenes, Methodists, Presbyterians, Pentecostals and others have >>>> discovered that these "labels" turn people off because they seem to >>>> express conviction about their distinctive beliefs. Words like >>>> "Community Church" or "Christian Fellowship" are more inclusive and >>>> less >>>> intimidating to those who might feel uncomfortable listening to people >>>> who are convinced that they are right about something. >>>> >>>> Some of the methods, such as home cells, are solidly New Testament. >>>> An >>>> emphasis on worship during the "worship service" is refreshing. >>>> Styles >>>> of music do appeal to various segments of the population. I know of a >>>> church that is doing quite well with what they call Southern >>>> Contemporary music. It's basically modern country music with >>>> Christian >>>> words. I wouldn't get too caught up in the styles and methods though. >>>> I also wouldn't make a decision to conform to what another church is >>>> doing just because they are experiencing numerical growth. Do what >>>> God >>>> is calling you to do. When it comes to church, the most important >>>> measure isn't the number of pews or the number of behinds sitting on >>>> them. The issue is love. Do these folks love one another? Do they >>>> love their neighbors? Do they love the Lord? Do you experience a >>>> sense >>>> of family love among them when they gather? Remember, there are big >>>> families and small ones. There are large dysfunctional families and >>>> also small ones? There are some large churches with an even bigger >>>> heart about them. And then again, there are some large churches that >>>> are just well-managed religious entertainment enterprises. There are >>>> small churches who stay small because their hearts are too small to >>>> even >>>> love one another, let alone love just one more. When a church becomes >>>> a >>>> loving spiritual family where Christ is all and in all, then He is >>>> being >>>> glorified. A church like that is in danger of becoming a large church >>>> because it is already a great one. >>>> >>>> >>>> GARY WEBB >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Jerry >>>> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 4:31 PM >>>> To: PASTORS FORUM >>>> Subject: [PastorsForum] Baptist Stigma >>>> >>>> >>>> Gentlemen, >>>> >>>> I had a middle-aged couple visit our church last night. They left >>>> the >>>> church they had been members of because of several changes that were >>>> made. >>>> >>>> One major change was a name change for the church. They dropped the >>>> word >>>> "Baptist" from the church's name. It was stated that there was a >>>> "stigma" with the name "Baptist," and that some people would not >>>> attend >>>> if the name "Baptist" was on the sign. They wanted outreach to the >>>> people in the community. >>>> >>>> Do you agree or disagree that there is a "stigma" associated with >>>> the >>>> name "Baptist"? >>>> >>>> The church also changed their worship style from "Blended" to praise >>>> and >>>> worship with a praise band supplying the instrumental music for >>>> worship. >>>> >>>> Instead of having a Sunday evening worship service, they have >>>> multiple >>>> home-group cell meetings in people's homes. >>>> >>>> Attendance at this church dropped for a bit, but now it has grown >>>> considerably. >>>> >>>> BTW, my wife and I were members of this church years ago. >>>> >>>> Jerry >>>> "Therefore they stayed there a long time, speaking boldly in the >>>> Lord, >>>> who was bearing witness to the word of His grace, granting signs and >>>> wonders to be done by their hands" (Acts 14:3). >>>> >>>> >>>> = >>>> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >>>> >>>> To unsubs= >>>> cribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> = >>>> >>>> = >>>> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >>>> >>>> To unsubs= >>>> cribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> = >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> Checked by AVG. >>>> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.21/1456 - Release Date: >>>> 5/20/2008 6:45 AM >>>> >>>> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe, send a message to: >>>> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >>>> >>>> >>> >>> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >>> >>> To unsubscribe, send a message to: >>> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >>> >>> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >>> >>> To unsubscribe, send a message to: >>> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >>> >>> >> >> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >> >> To unsubscribe, send a message to: >> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >> >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.21/1458 - Release Date: >> 5/21/2008 7:21 AM >> > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... > >