Um, some Baptists up here dance now. It's no longer illegal at Cornerstone University now. Yeah, I know they're on their way to hell now, blah, blah, blah. OK, whatever. Stigma? Now, about this section: Context. Context. Context. Look at the grammatical-historical context of the passage and you will have your answer. :) Blessings, Randy > Since you like to dance, and of course we BAPTIST don't dance. Here is a > verse for you. > > > 1Co 7:16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether *thou shalt save thy > husband*? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou *shalt save thy wife? * > > > > > > On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 8:58 PM, <shieldwolf@...> wrote: > >> Baptism now saves you. 1 ptr 3:21. >> >> Dance around it however you want. The historical position of the church >> holds this to be true, that God acts through the visible element with >> the >> Word. Go back as far as you want in church history and that is the >> norm. >> The abnormality is the belief that it is just a pretty picture. You can >> say that for it's history the church was wrong and I respect that view, >> but that must be view such a position takes. >> >> Now, if YOU decide for God that you would be saved, now THAT is a work. >> ;) >> >> There is a great article about what is really an act of God or an act of >> man out at http://www.ctsfw.edu/events/symposia/papers/sym2007cary.pdf >> >> I understand your position. Luther wanted the RC church to return to >> the >> historic faith delivered by the apostles. He sought reform. Other >> groups >> sought rebellion. >> >> >> > Actually, the opposite is true. Those churches teaching baptismal >> > regeneration or otherwise implying that baptism is essential to >> salvation >> > are adding man's work to God's. We are seeking to maintain the truth >> by >> > clearly opposing any such error and conforming our practice to our >> > doctrine. We are seeking to honor the gospel of the grace of God as >> best >> > we understand it by not adding the work of baptism to the faith of the >> > individual. >> > >> > If the person doesn't understand the basic message of salvation by >> grace >> > through faith alone, then we don't baptize them ourselves. We don't >> > because it would be acting contrary to our belief that no church >> ritual >> or >> > sacrament is involved in salvation itself. If you believe and teach >> > otherwise, then you add your work to God's. >> > >> > Yes, we do believe that baptism is a symbol or expression of our faith >> in >> > Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. The symbol doesn't actually >> > save us. >> > >> > >> > >> > GARY WEBB >> > >> > >> > >> > From: shieldwolf@... >> > Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 3:08 PM >> > To: pastorsforum@... >> > Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Baptist Stigma >> > >> > >> > Um. OK. I think for a pretty picture and simply something of >> obedience >> > (for ya'all) you are pushing it a bit. >> > >> > I stand behind my, "Only pictures from our gallery are any good" >> analogy. >> > >> > It's not like it's baptism from a cult like the JW's or mormons. >> We're >> > talking other Christian groups. So the person didn't understand what >> > baptism was all about (from your perspective) what you are saying is >> that >> > unless you have "the proper understanding" that the baptism is >> invalid. >> > >> > Well, that goes back to it being a work of man, YOUR WORK, and the >> focus >> > is on the human and not on God. OK, whatever. Why get so yanked out >> of >> > shape about something that has no meaning except as a sign. >> > >> > Makes no sense to me, but it's your water....of course, water mixed >> with >> > God's Word. <grin> >> > >> > Blessings, >> > Randy >> > >> > Next you'll be saying it's not a valid Lord's Supper unless you only >> use >> > unfermented grape juice. <wink> >> > >> > >> >> Randy, >> >> >> >> Some of us actually believe that baptism means immersion, that it is >> >> only >> >> to be performed on those who have personally believed in Christ, and >> >> that >> >> it is a sign rather than the substance of salvation. >> >> >> >> We would not accept a baptism by immersion from any of those churches >> >> that >> >> give it an unscriptural significance. To imply that water baptism is >> >> essential to eternal life is contrary to what we believe. Acceptance >> of >> >> that "baptism" would imply acceptance of the error behind it. If we >> >> believe that baptism is only for believers in Christ then we could >> not >> >> accept something called baptism which did not include that meaning. >> If >> >> we >> >> believe and teach that baptism means immersion, then it would be >> wrong >> >> to >> >> accept some other action just because someone has given it the same >> >> name. >> >> If we believe someone has gone through some unscriptural ritual that >> is >> >> being called baptism but isn't, then we would endorse that teaching >> by >> >> agreeing that the person was baptized. >> >> >> >> Many denominations teach believer's baptism by immersion without >> >> implying >> >> that it is essential to salvation. In such cases, we would accept >> them >> >> into our fellowship without requiring baptism. They would not have >> to >> >> call their church Baptist so long as they teach the truth as we >> >> understand >> >> and believe it. >> >> >> >> >> >> GARY WEBB >> >> >> >> >> >> From: Dpowellaz2@... >> >> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 1:34 PM >> >> To: pastorsforum@... >> >> Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Baptist Stigma >> >> >> >> >> >> In a message dated 5/21/2008 7:49:06 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, >> >> shieldwolf@... writes: >> >> Really? You gotta be kidding me? This is a joke, right? >> >> I mean, I can see them not accepting infant baptism, but if one is >> >> baptized in the name of the Triune God "as a believer", then >> baptizing >> >> them again...Oh, wait...it's just a pretty picture, a sign of >> >> obedience....so, I guess you aren't REALLY obedient unless you are >> >> baptized in their church. So I guess the pretty picture can only >> >> happen >> >> with them and no one else.... >> >> >> >> I hope to God (seriously) that you are joking with me. >> >> >> >> Blessings, >> >> Randy >> >> >> >> Randy, sad to say, no I was not joking! >> >> Doc >> >> >> >> Shalom Alechem...Barukh Hashem Y'shua! >> >> (Peace and Blessings in Jesus' name!) >> >> Pastor Dr. David Powell >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler >> >> Florence" >> >> on AOL Food. >> >> >> >> >> >> = >> >> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >> >> >> >> To unsubs= >> >> cribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> = >> >> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe, send a message to: >> >> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >> >> >> >> >> > >> > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >> > >> > To unsubscribe, send a message to: >> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >> > >> > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >> > >> > To unsubscribe, send a message to: >> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >> > >> > >> >> To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... >> >> To unsubscribe, send a message to: >> pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >> >> > > > -- > Bro. Jeff Hallmark > www.sprucelandbaptist.com > http://baptist-potluck.blogspot.com/ > > To subscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-join@... > > To unsubscribe, send a message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... >