Mike
If you read the email you will see it was written tongue in cheek :-) and
aimed at myself as well hence the phrase "but then neither do I" also
sometimes our aloof stance can put people off whilst our very vulnerability
rather than putting people off will attract people because they see us as
being real.
Pastor Dave Gilder
JESUS CHRIST IS 100% RELIABLE 100% OF THE TIME TRUST HIM
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Cantrell [mailto:mcantrell@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 10:22 AM
To: 'pastorsforum@...'
Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] IFB Attitudes
I don't agree with the idea that IBF pastors are conceited and arrogant.
While I do not consider myself in that category, I hold to a great number
of doctrines that are held by the IBF because they are Bible doctrines. I
believe there are those in all group that could fit the mold that our
brother Dale has placed many in. I also believe that most pastors in most
denominations are simply overwhelmed with this thing called ministry. We
often feel inadequate for the task before us. Therefore, what seems to be
conceit is simply loneliness along with frustration in our calling due to
the fact that we want the best for our people, yet, our people don't want
the best for themselves. We would not, and feel oftimes we cannot allow
this to show through because we are called with a high calling and someone
with such a responsibility cannot show what the world would perceive as
weakness. Therefore, we mask with a pious facade the feeling inside.
The answer to all this is all too obvious
Mike's ramblings on this matter.
May, The LORD bless you, and keep you: The LORD make his face shine upon
you, and be gracious unto you:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon you, and give you peace. Numbers
6:24-26
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Gilder [SMTP:davemetro@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 8:42 AM
To: pastorsforum@...
Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] IFB Attitudes
<< File: ATT00000.htm >> << File: image002.gif >> << File: image001.jpg >>
Dale
I doubt if the IFB guys intend to be deliberately rude or arrogant or
conceited and introvert, nor do they intentionally come across as bigoted
but then neither do I :-)
I guess the problem for all of us preachers is that we are so fired up for
service that we forget that Jesus called us servants and the only attitude
a
servant can have is an obedient one. In England a butler would serve his
master but keep his opinions to himself whilst I don't condone this perhaps
sometimes all of us need to engage brain before engaging mouth :-) Having
said that most of the IFB guys on this forum probably think I have a big
mouth and am too opionionated. :-) Well you asked :-)
Dave
Pastor Dave Gilder
JESUS CHRIST IS 100% RELIABLE 100% OF THE TIME TRUST HIM
_____
From: Dale Gooding [mailto:prosperityfbc@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 8:49 AM
To: pastorsforum@...
Subject: [PastorsForum] IFB Attitudes
Dave,
Thx for the reply. But, what is your personal observation of IFB pastors?
Does our "denomination" (ooowwww, I hate to use that word), or our
pastors/preachers seem to have more bad attitudes and hateful spirits than
others. I know none of us knows everyone but from your general experience
and perspective - what do you think?
Thx,
DG
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Gilder [mailto:davemetro@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 8:44 AM
To: pastorsforum@...
Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] crucifixion
Dale
As far as I can see the ones with mean spirits tend towards legalism almost
pharasaical attitudes and sadly they are in every denomination and probably
we have all been guilty at some time or another that's why I am so glad
that
when we see Jesus we shall all be changed. Having said that he is still
working on us all as we go from one degree of glory to another :-) By the
way I am a pentebapticostal with presbeteromethodiholiness leanings of an
free brethweslyian nature and anti denominational tendencies of the worst
kind :-) :-) If you don't believe me ask Dr Dave P. Oh and I also tongue
or is that tongues in cheek love to wind up some of them there IFB guys.
:-)
Or as they say light the blue touch paper and run. :-)
Dave
Former Englishman now anglo American residing in the big apple. (and we
have
only been here since end of June. :-)
Pastor Dave Gilder
JESUS CHRIST IS 100% RELIABLE 100% OF THE TIME TRUST HIM
_____
From: Dale Gooding [mailto:prosperityfbc@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 7:53 AM
To: pastorsforum@...
Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] crucifixion
Charlie,
I hope to hit some nerves. But, in a loving way. My post was not intended
to come across as strong or mean but compelling and challenging. I look
forward to what both the IFB guys and the non-IFB guys have to say. What
is
your opinion, please?
Thx,
DG
I Cor. 15:58
-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie Carroll Jr. [mailto:carrollbigcjr@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 1:19 AM
To: pastorsforum@...
Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] crucifixion
Whoa, Dale I have heard this saying my whole life. Now I know what it
means
"You must have hit a nerve"!
here because of Jesus
Charlie
Phil.4:13
----- Original Message -----
From: Pastor David Warner <mailto:dwarner@...>
To: pastorsforum@...
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 12:48 AM
Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] crucifixion
Dale,
You must have only been here a couple months. If you go to the archives of
last spring and look at the passion movie posts you will see the "passion"
and it wasn't from the IFB guys who "laid in to anyone who dared say
anything against it." The IFB guys just stood their ground and the stones
came from nearly everywhere.
BTY, if I had a missionary my church supported and they ran to other
pastors
of any flavor and ran our church down I'd not count them as one of our
missionaries for very long, I can tell you.
Now bless your heart, have you never seen any non-IFB guys come across as
hateful, unloving, unkind, unbiblical, unanything? I must ask you, where
is
the love. You shoot and no one was saying anything that I'm aware of to
get
you going. You just start on automatic with those newly legal assault
weapons. Wow. What happened to you today, or yesterday?
My experience is exactly what I have experienced here.
David Warner
-----Original Message-----
From: Dale Gooding [mailto:prosperityfbc@...]
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 11:02 PM
To: pastorsforum@...
Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] crucifixion
Dr. Dave,
I will send you the info. Just wanted you to tell you something I thought
you might find interesting. I was speaking to the guy who tunes up the
church piano and we were discussing the attitude of many IFB
pastors/preachers. He was telling me that he goes to a lot of
churches and tunes pianos as well as "mainstream" denominations and liberal
churches. He noticed that he gets most of his ill treatment and
disgraceful
attitudes he gets is from the IFBs. I know this comment reaches back to
the
nature of some of our old posts but I just wanted to let you know, because
you and I have traversed these grounds before, that that is exactly what I
am not. Why many IFB guys have to have so much acrimony is beyond me. I
think they think that if they are of a sweet spirit then they must be
liberal on something or they are not hard enough on sin; something like
that, I don't know!
The man and I agreed that we like the theology of the IFB movement but not
the attitudes. But that it has driven many away by the attitudes of too
many of its representatives.
I guess what I am saying is multi-fold.
1.) I am not that way, never have been and, Lord willing, never will be.
I feel almost like some kind of missionary in the IFB movement to the IFB
preachers.
2.) I would like to encourage right thinking people like you to continue
to be gracious to us as you have so many times to the IFB guys on the list
even when they come across as hateful and mean spirited - and sometimes
they
do.
3.) I would like to ask all of my IFB preacher friends out here - do you
have a sweet spirit or is everything "bless god brother, if it moves shoot
it, AMEN!" Guys, where is the love?
Rom 2:4 "Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and
longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to
repentance?"
Your experiences are welcomed as a reply.
DG
-----Original Message-----
From: DAVID POWELL [mailto:dpowellaz@...]
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 7:08 PM
To: pastorsforum@...
Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] crucifixion
HEY!!! I don't want to be the only stick in the mud. I would enjoy a copy
myself!
God Bless (slowly moving into the 21st century)
[this note was NOT typed on a 1973, $20,000 typewriter!]
David Powell, Senior Pastor, CLCC
Waddell, AZ
Shalom Alechem...Barukh Hashem Y'shua!
(Peace and Blessings in Jesus' name!)
----- Original Message -----
From: stricklands1 <mailto:stricklands1@...>
To: pastorsforum@...
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 3:42 PM
Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] crucifixion
I would also like to be included. Thank you in adnance!
-----Original Message-----
From: Rev. Wm. Clinton Stockton [mailto:pastorclint@...]
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 11:19 AM
To: pastorsforum@...
Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] crucifixion
DG
Could you send it to me as well.
Clint
pastorclint@...
-------Original Message-------
From: pastorsforum@...
Date: 09/13/04 09:40:03
To: pastorsforum@...
Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] crucifixion
Dave,
I will include the PP Pres., an outline I use to perform the pres. on MS
Word, and the Journal of the American Medical Association document on MS
Word as well. I believe this will transform your understanding of the
crucifixion and really open the eyes of your people toward the degree of
pain, humility, and overall suffering the Lord must have experienced.
I will send it to you directly if you don't mind.
DG
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