Steve,
Jesus began His church on earth during His earthly ministry.  The church
exists in many local churches.  He is building it.  Some day He will gather
it unto Himself in heaven as His completed, beautiful, spotless, and perfect
Bride.  It will be GATHERED as is seen now when the church is GATHERED.
This is the mystery, not the invisible.  So from Matt. 16 He told of His
church from then on and in Matt 18 He is telling his church how to behave
themselves now.
David W

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven G. Rockhill [mailto:revrock@...]
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 9:04 AM
To: pastorsforum@...
Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] RE: New Question


So when Jesus said in Matthew 16 "I will build my Church" - based on what
you say below then, that "church" He was talking about was the Church
gathered in heaven and not the Church here on earth?

Peace,
Steve



The wrong premise is that you BEGIN with the universal as existing in the
world today and make all Scripture apply to what you believe to start with.
If you will think local and understand that the church singular will not
exist until it is gathered in heaven you will see that this is a "better
fit".  That's all I'm saying.  Until you can even consider that the
universal is a false concept for believers today you will not be able to
understand those who do not accept it.
David W

-----Original Message-----
From: Derick Dickens [mailto:Derick@...]
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 9:30 PM
To: pastorsforum@...
Subject: RE: [PastorsForum] RE: New Question


David Warner,

First, this is not my premise, it is showing in scripture how I derive
at a Universal Church.  I see no way you can take Ephesians 5 to mean a
local body of believers for the reasons I stated in my post.  Again, I
invite you to show how my exegesis is not proper and how in Ephesians
that phraseology could be used of many local churches or of the Ephesian
churches.  I think I used proper exegetical and hermeneutical rules.
There are other verses I could use, like Jesus saying he will build his
"church" (singular not plural).  If we believe that God has a purpose
for each word, we must conclude there is significance.

Someone talked about Church discipline.  Church discipline is a local
church matter.  Most theologians will state that Sanctification has
various uses in the Bible.  To take one use and force it into other uses
is wrong.  To take what is designed for the local and apply it to the
Universal Church is wrong.

------------------------------------
Wallers Baptist Church
Pastor
derick@...
PO Box 95
Partlow VA 22534
tel: 540-582-5703
mobile: 540-894-1772
www.thedickensfamily.org
------------------------------------

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