Just a couple of thoughts on this post. 1. What about people who have physical / emotional ailments? Bi-polar people commit suicide often and many are Christians - Spurgeon was said to have had very serious and lengthy bouts with depression. 2. Judas didn't do anything the others didn't do with the exception that he didn't come back to Jesus. Some would say that Judas' sin was the same as Jesus' mother Mary's when in Jn. 2 she may have been "hastening" the coming kingdom by encouraging Jesus to show everyone who he really was. One caveat though would be that Judas' sin was prophesied (Ps. 41:9 w/ Jn. 17:12). Not to excuse suicide but I understand the old "suicide can't be forgiven" concept came about due to errant teaching that suggested you must "ask for forgiveness" for a sin before you died. If so, then how do we interpret II Cor. 5:21. I am convinced that because Jesus is my righteousness, I am seated in the heavenlies, He does know me and can't say "I NEVER knew you", I have come to Him so I cant "be cast out", and Romans 8:38, 39 there is nothing I can do to "lose" my salvation. It was given to my by His drawing and His gifts and callings are "without repentance". What I have is not mine, it is His! DG -----Original Message----- From: Steven G. Rockhill [mailto:revrock@...] Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 1:14 PM To: pastorsforum@... Subject: Re: [PastorsForum] Suicide and the Unforgivable Sin Thanks for the thoughts Jeff. I forgot to clarify in my post that I was referring specifically to 'professed' Christians who commit suicide. I really appreciate your take on this and it gives me a lot to think about. Here is what my answer has been up to this point regarding a professed Christian who commits suicide. I have not equated Christian suicide (I know it is an oxymoron but it works ) with the unpardonable sin but I have taken the position that it is perilously close, yet ultimately it rests upon God's grace. If the unpardonable sin is a deliberate final rejection of Christ and the Gospel and/or a blaspheming of the Holy Spirit - then to me in one sense Christians who commit suicide come very close to that. Consider this: When a professed Christian takes his own life (which obviously is a very selfish sin) - is he not, by his action, saying that the Holy Spirit has no power to deliver him from whatever trial or tribulation he is going through? If one says the Holy Spirit is powerless especially if one has experienced that power, then is that not blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? Is he not rejecting deliberately and finally the hope in Christ Jesus that all things will work out for the good of those who love God either in this life or the next? Is he not rejecting once and for all the saving power of the Gospel? This has basically been my rationale for my position, though I had not thought about what you mention re: a mistake (sin). Did Judas commit the unforgivable sin? What was the relation to his suicide? Are there any other suicides recorded in Scripture? Is there a difference between someone who renounces their faith before committing suicide (e.g. Judas) and someone who does not renounce their faith but in a weak moment commits suicide? just some thoughts. I am really interested in coming to some clearer understanding in this, so please help as you are able. Thanks. Peace, STeve Jeff Hallmark wrote: > Bro. Steve, I am against Suicides. But I do not think it is the > 'unforgiveable sin'. > > Here are some of my thoughts on Sucides... > > 1. Amongest Teens suicides is a great killer, I have stats but not off > the top of my head. Many teens commit suicides because they have > disobeyed and dishonoured their parents. Eph. 6:1,2 > > 2. The unsaved in general suicides just sends them stright to hell. > They can not handle the pressures of > this world, and/or their sins have led them to death. > > 3. Now here is the one most foliks want to talk about.... will a > beliver, a blood brought child of God commit suicide? > > -- Can a believer make a mistake, I believe so. We all make mistake, > and sometimes our mistakes are deadly. I believe a believer can get so > discourage in this world and the pressures of life on them that they > come to the point of suicide. And again, I believe this is a deadly > mistake. > > Jeff > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steven G. Rockhill" <revrock@...> > >>I thought I would part the silence and ask about your thoughts on >>Suicide (pro or con) and the unforgivable sin. Are the two the >>same? Related? Not related at all? What passages in Scripture >>speak about suicide? Can we only say that only those who commit >>suicide (successfully) and who are elect go to heaven? What about >>mental illness? Does the person committing suicide by their action >>reject finally once and for all the power of the Holy Spirit? Do >>we have enough info from Scripture to make a clear determination? >> I will post my thoughts tomorrow, but they are not at all firm >>and solid on this issue. >>The issue came up in Sunday School and I gave my personal opinion >>and I found out this evening at our elders meeting that apparently >>some folks were aghast or offended or felt like I was insensitive >>or agreed with me. (All second hand of course - certainly no one >>would come and talk to me directly - but that is another issue for >>another thread). >> >>Peace, >>Steve > > -- To unsubscribe, send ANY message to: pastorsforum-unsubscribe@... "In essential things, unity; in non-essential things, liberty; and in all things, charity."